Pride month

[Hyperions]

Has anyone noticed a dialling down in PRIDE logos on business websites today?

There is some suggestion that there are more gay men than lesbians, but mostly the lesbians stay away- lesbians have always felt far less welcome at pride events. It has always been very male-dominated, which has only got worse in recent years. Even back in the day, many lesbians, myself included, felt very uncomfortable with the number of men wandering around with their arses out.

The wonderful Jenny Watson is trying to set up a Lesbian Pride, which I would be much more keen to go to.

Thank you- I was not aware that was still the case.

I know there is a trans day of remembrance but is there a gay day of remembrance?

just googled and the trans one came straight up so i assume there isn’t a gay one

Her post was perfectly clear, you may agree or disagree with it but she did say ‘day of remembrance’

Totally agree with this. We should have moved beyond this - don't flaunt it stance seen here. It is clear homophobia.

By the way there is a straight day, just as there is a men's day. But just like men crying what about men's day on women's day, none of you are really interested in a straight day.

What does Q mean? I thought it was now being used by some instead of gay. Historically it was an insulting term used about gay people of course.

Yet the organiser, Pride in London, has made it obvious there’s no place for such heinous views at its events. The code of conduct even goes rogue from official Equality Act wording: “gender” and “gender identity” are listed as protected characteristics that may not, it is stressed, be “targeted” by “signage”. In plain terms: lesbians may not march with placards saying things like “lesbian = female homosexual”. The last time a group tried this in 2018, Pride in London denounced them as “shocking and disgusting”, demonstrating “a level of bigotry, ignorance and hate that is unacceptable”.

From doc stocks article

yes there is homophobia for example lesbians cannot assert that they are same sex attracted rather than same gender attracted. At pride. Lesbians at pride cannot say they are female homosexuals.

the world is misogynistic and as Pride is part of the world, it’s just as misogynistic as the rest of it

I agree with every word she says.

When is this day? Thank you

i think it is hugely naive to assert that gays and lesbians are totally accepted in society. I was at a gay wedding 2 years ago and as we walked to the reception venue, the 2 grooms were holding hands and were abused by several people along the way, When we asked if they wanted us to intervene, call the police or whatever, they said "it happens all the time we just ignore it".

And we have a massive example of a homphobic father in the way Suzie Green describes how her son liked "girl" things and so she transed her son. (bottom line, that's what happened). Etc etc.

I don't believe anyone should be discriminated against, gay, lesbian, bi or trans. Or female. And i do believe there is a way for all of us to live our lives without discrimination. It requires a little give and take. So 3rd spaces alongside single sex spaces, single sex sports, awards etc.

Where i feel the LGB have lost out is in the widening of the T "umbrella" and the force teaming of their legitimate issues with demands for acceptance by people who should be keeping their fetishes either at home or in fetish clubs. I'm not talking about men walking around in wigs and dresses, i have no issue with that as long as they have no issue with me not saying they are a woman. The LGB-baby is out with the bathwater because people are sick of the T being front and centre. Not to mention the issues around how homophobic most of the T rhetoric is.

I notice that the original rainbow flag (the LGB(T) flag of old) is now considered transphobic, whereas the "progress pride" flag doesn't reference L, G or B in the many explanations of what it is that you can see online (didn't someone post it here)

So while i am an ally in many many respects, i find myself exasperated with the overreach and am no longer taking part in extra pride events. Although i will be at a Christopher Street Day thing next week.

There is not, no.

No, queer has no defined meaning, so people are using it to mean whatever the hell they want it to mean. A lot of 'queer' people are straight.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😂😂

I don't think anyone is saying that.

But there is a huge difference in underlying approach between wanting sexual orientation to be non-notable, and seeing it as a major, and public, identity marker, that should be celebrated as different.

Most people go about their daily lives and while family life will get some mention, most of the time sexuality won't except in the context of dating. Is there a need to elevate the concept of sexual orientation to something different than that? Why would their be?

The question of "straight Pride" comes out of that I think. If sexual orientation is such an important thing in itself, that defines us hugely, then there really should be a festival for sexual orientation in general, and in all of t's various permutations, from people who like sex in their socks to lesbians to blue hairs to the fans of cottaging and the most boring vanilla straight people to fetishists.

To a large extent, Pride seems to represent a very small part of even the LGB community. Part of that is because many people, gay or not, aren't wanting to take that second approach to sexual orientation. They want it to be non-notable. But also because it seems to have been attached to a whole list of other political causes.

That's what I find most notable now about all the "Rainbow" people and their allies. Sexuality isn't actually the main commonality, it's politics. It includes lots of people who are, let's face it, straight. And excludes gay and lesbian people whose politics don't fit. Which is a lot because, honestly, this is a group of people where their common beliefs are actually pretty minimal. There isn't an LGB perspective on 99% of topics.

I remember being in London on the day of Pride (not attending, but running various errands) about 15 years ago, and I strongly remember seeing a lot of old men (60+) looking rather smug and on the look out for the next young thing. I guess men are going to be men!

And I also would say, I think it's pretty questionable the extent to which a lot of different kinds of observances are effective at creating a difference of opinions.

One of my staff is really fixated on doing displays for every month that has some designation - which is all of them. It's sometimes a chance to get out some books and materials that might not be seen, so not a bad thing in that sense. But man, the idea that month after month everyone is getting something about of them - because there are multiple days and months and weeks all year round. I just don't really see it as effective.

As someone else has said Queer now means whatever and doesn't even mean same-sex attracted.

As a lot of straight people use the term to describe themselves ("demisexual" is for someone who wants a relationship before any sexual activity is a "queer" sexual orientation), and it shows because straight people haven't faced the abuse they are very happy to use this loaded term.

We see a lot of straight fully-bearded men go to lesbian dating events/apps and claim to be lesbians, and to a much lesser extent some straight girls (usually teenagers or young adults) naively thinking that calling themselves gay men they can do the same too.

This is why the TQ+ should be separate from LGB, and I am growing increasingly tired of so-called anti-LGBT+ policies that are actually pro-trans and anti-gay (apparently banning telling same-sex attracted people that they should change sex is homophobic according to the mainstream media).

This

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While I agree with a lot of what you have said here, I would like to pull you up on a couple of things.

Firstly, no one in a relationship can mention their family life without also mentioning their sexuality; it's just not seen as notable when straight people do it. When I mention my wife, I am announcing my sexuality, and while I and many others don't find it notable, many straight people do. It's never other gay people who think they can ask intrusive questions just because I have a wife (most straight people I come across don't either, but the ones who do are always straight). So the 'straight people don't care if you're gay' argument doesn't always wash.

It's also very naive, and rather silly, to claim that 'straight pride' is the same as 'gay pride'. The experience of gay people in society, even now, is very different from the experience of straight people in society. Young gay people who go to gay pride to meet other gay people and feel comfortable holding hands with their partner should not be treated with the same derision as the men in fetish gear should be treated with.

@PeppercornMill don't most people want a relationship before having sex? I know lots of people have one night stands but I would have still thought most want a relationship?
So by this bizarre definition I am "queer"?!!!
I am too old for all this shit. It feels like Alice in Wonderland

Yep!! Tumblr has a lot to answer for

Many of us want it to be non-notable whilst also recognising that this is not the case. People choosing to celebrate who they are in the face of the marginalisation they experience is not inconsistent with the first point. It does not necessarily mean they want their sexuality to be a major, public identity marker, only that they know that it is and object to its perception as a negative one.

It is a regular accusation that LGB people responding in this way to the hostility they face want special treatment or attention. Many people claim not to care about someone being LGB, so long as you keep it in the bedroom where it belongs. That completely ignores the context in which LGB people have been forced to hide who they are, and the harm that such repression inflicts.

I agree that many LGB people including myself do not engage with pride today and that its politics and message have been corrupted. But I object to people using those facts the deny ongoing homophobia. I particularly object to the erasure of same sex attracted people in the one area they should be recognised being used to do so. The appropriation of the LGB struggle for dignity and respect by straight people (largely men) who like some form of extreme sex, or the insistence that lesbian women accept sexual encounters with males, are just further examples of marginalisation.

Thank you