Will there be any males in women's teams at the Olympics?

[iknownothingnow]

Discussing men in women's sports with my husband, who believes it will never happen (despite me telling him it already is). He asked if this will be the case during the olympics?

Can anyone give me any info to back up my argument as, if not this time, perhaps it will be the norm in years to come?

I want my DH to engage with this issue as we have sporty girls in the family, but although he agrees with me he just thinks it will never be allowed so not worth worrying over.

ISTR that Chinese officialdom just kept repeating that all the team members were women.

When trans supporters insist that males on oestrogen are enfeebled enough to only compete against women, why do they ignore the evidence before their eyes? They suddenly smash women's records and even women themselves? Surely if men on oestrogen become no stronger than the average female athlete, then shouldn't it follow that women taking testosterone ought to be out there breaking men's records, or at least being competitive with them?

It's true, evidently, that women in both categories are considered irrelevant, the one as completely irrelevant and the other as props for MCW to use as a backdrop.

Has your husband been living in a fucking cave ?

He needs to educate himself about this, pronto.

This article is interesting..

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1143198/restrictions-transgender-paris2024-games

I can't find anything to support the statement that the IOC have declared that anyone who has not transitioned after the age of 12 will not be eligible.. but Athletics, Swimming and Cycling, Rowing and possible boxing international bodies have made such declarations so this covers some of the major sporting areas in the olympics ..

From what I can tell, football and hockey have not...

So even though the IOC framework prioritises inclusion and non discrimination on the basis of gender identity, the international bodies of many sports have come down on the side of discrimination on the basis of sex or transition before puberty..

What remains to be seem is whether any of this will be enforced should national organisations ignore international guidance or if what happens in those sports whixb permit inclusion based on legal gender.

Ivy/Mckinnon and others convinced the IOC that because the world used pronouns that they, male trans people, demanded, that it would be cruel to deny that they, as trans people, were ‘women’. Hence they should compete in ‘womens’ sports. Note the ‘humanizing use of woman vs female’ being used to these male people’s advantage.

The IOC chose to not make the hard decisions so foisted the decisions to the sports bodies. Hence the mess we are in now.

The elite versus grassroots thing is complicated. In many/most sports all athletes start in a recreational class. Allowing males to say they are girls/ women and take part in the girls' recreational classes and local/ regional competitions will affect all the girls including potential elite competitors.
The ability gap starts at birth - by age 4 many boys are already faster, stronger, more aggressive and more daring than most girls.
Girls who play or train with boys seem to learn some of these behaviours so that ime they have a competitive advantage over girls who only ever trained with girls.

Laurel Hubbard who won a place in the Olympics and took the place of a young indigenous women from a very difficult background, was over 20 years older than all the other competitors, and carrying an injury which would have ended the career of a female athlete.
Needless to say the fact that Hubbard didn't place was hailed as evidence that men who identify as women have no advantage.

LH is the strongest ever 'older lady' by an embarrassing margin, see https://www.imwla.com/records.

If LH had competed one games (ie 4 years) earlier, victory would have been likely, two games earlier certain.

LH is the strongest ever 'older lady' by an embarrassing margin, see https://www.imwla.com/records.

Ta for that - ridiculous to see it in black and white like that on an official site.

Do we know which male weight category he'd be in, just to get a better comparison with the male records? "+87" from the female chart isn't very helpful.

Here are two more male athletes at high school level displacing female athletes.

https://4w.pub/hawaiian-boy-wins-medals-in-girls-track-and-field-awarded-oustanding-athlete/

Coincidentally, they then made up half the relay team.

And yet, the truly brave trans athlete is the third male trans athlete at the same school who continued to compete as a male athlete.

The age issue is a common one. And it is actually one of those things that make these male athletes stand out.

They are competing as male athletes significantly older than the female athletes and when people point out that there is a reason that no female people are competing at that level at that age, those supporting the male people just don’t see it. It was pointed out that a male ‘grandmother’ rugby player in Australia was doing something as a 50 something ex-champion aquatic sportsman and even represented Australia in one Olympics for the pentathlon, that no female athlete was doing. Playing rugby competitively with younger women!

No other 50 + year olds were out there playing against the 20 somethings and holding their own. Or even wanting to get tackled with our peri or menopausal bodies. Miller was most upset when this was pointed out. That really, Miller was not just being ‘just another woman playing sport!’.

Just like the runners in the UK setting records no female runner at that age will break. Unless they too are male athletes competing as a female athlete.

It is the unique ability to compete being a decade or two older than the female athletes they are competing with that makes them stand out.

The March 2023 statement from World Athletics is very clear:

'In regard to transgender athletes, the Council has agreed to exclude male-to-female transgender athletes who have been through male puberty from female World Rankings competition from 31 March 2023.

In these circumstances, the Council decided to prioritise fairness and the integrity of the female competition before inclusion.

World Athletics President Sebastian Coe said: “Decisions are always difficult when they involve conflicting needs and rights between different groups, but we continue to take the view that we must maintain fairness for female athletes above all other considerations. ... we believe the integrity of the female category in athletics is paramount."

https://worldathletics.org/news/press-releases/council-meeting-march-2023-russia-belarus-female-eligibility 

It also mentions DSD athletes: 'the new regulations will require any relevant athletes to reduce their testosterone levels below a limit of 2.5 nmol/L for a minimum of 24 months to compete internationally in the female category in any event, not just the events that were restricted (400m to one mile) under the previous regulations'. This is an improvement.

Let's see what the Olympics brings!!

This website lists 19 male cyclists all winning competitions in USA female cycling
https://x.com/i_heart__bikes?lang=en

difficult to answer. at the Olympics he was (with respect) a fat bastard so would certainly have fallen within the top weight category even for men... though at about 6'1" he'd have been a little (though not unprecedentedly) on the short side for that category, in shape might have been more competitive in the weight category, whatever that is (checks - sub 109kg bodyweight).

@iknownothingnow I suggest you ask your husband to explain the logic of the US rowing rules:

Races can be male, female, or mixed.

In a mixed race, each boat contains equal numbers of male and female.rowers.

Transwomen are permitted to row in women's races.

Transwomen are not permitted to row as women in mixed races because that would give their boat an unfair advantage.

What's with the hands under the chin thing in photographs? I've seen them do this loads of times, I've yet to see a woman do it.

Hides the madam's apple?

Isn't that what little kids do in photos? I don't know why they do it. It is a posing for a photo pose.

This is a mid 30s wealthy white male beating women who are all at their peak in their early 20s, and that’s after suffering an injury that is often career ending. The woman that missed out was Nauruan and would have been their first Olympian in years, the whole tiny island would have celebrated. Fucker taking places and opportunities and successes from marginalised young women of colour, from very poor nations.

It's appalling. My late husband was a weightlifter.

He was a mature entrant to university. Graduated in his 30s. He'd been a forestry worker. On his first lift, he broke his uni's weightlifting record for his weight range. (He was a short man. In his pic with the team, he looks like a pocket Lou Ferrigno.)

He became Scottish Universities' Weightlifting Champ. He lost out at the British Uni Championships to a bloke who was on steroids. (Massive muscle gain in the space of a year.) DH got the silver in that competition.

DH never competed at a level above uni/college, but he'd easily have beaten any women. He was still lifting weights into his 50s, before heart trouble hit him.

Of course they won't allow men into women's sports. Never happens.

Certainly never happens in US cycling. x.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1798552826584654013?

Unroll, for those who don't TwiX: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1798552826584654013.html

If Sharron had won gold in the Olympics when she was entitled to the medals, can you think what a role model she would have been to women and girls to be involved in sport in the UK? How much further along women's sport in general might be, how swimming might have had better funding since that decade, and how we might have more public swimming pools now?

Injustices cast long shadows. I often think of what might have been for women and girls, and for sports coaching (Sharron's father became a pariah and lost his coaching career, iirc) if Sharron hadn't been up against competitors who were being doped.

The contemporary 'What is a woman' issue is Sharron writ large and could well mark the end to women's sports (as currently understood) with all the policy and public health implications that flow from that.

Oh my goodness. This is mad!

The rules have now become quite stringent as a result of so much controversy, So I'm doubtful if we'll see any this year; though please show your husband all of the examples emanting from the United States - with men taking medals meant for women on a frequent basis.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1143198/restrictions-transgender-paris2024-games