Will there be any males in women's teams at the Olympics?

[iknownothingnow]

Discussing men in women's sports with my husband, who believes it will never happen (despite me telling him it already is). He asked if this will be the case during the olympics?

Can anyone give me any info to back up my argument as, if not this time, perhaps it will be the norm in years to come?

I want my DH to engage with this issue as we have sporty girls in the family, but although he agrees with me he just thinks it will never be allowed so not worth worrying over.

Already happened. https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-weightlifting-laurel-hubbard-e721827cdaf7299f47a9115a09c2a162

Here's Fair Play for Women's take on it.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/laurel_hubbard/

It needs to be said that because Hubbard went to the Olympics a female athlete lost our on the chance of being an Olympian.

Find him links to the flip flopping in the International Olympic Committee's (IOC's) guidelines. It was allowed, it has been allowed. It's met with resistance. The selection has doubtless become politicised. But if the IOC regulations have been open to it, there's no "it won't be allowed".

If his argument is that it's not a problem until its widespread, he's a numpty, quite honestly.

It’s happening already at grassroots level where it’s far more likely to affect your DD - or is he only bothered about elite sport?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13244359/Transgender-row-erupts-womens-football-tournament.html

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13012973/transgender-footballer-quits-after-rival-teams-refuse-to-play-against-her

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-trans-identified-male-playing-in-womens-field-hockey-club-injured-female-player/

DH umpires hockey - a number of the university “women’s” teams have TW on them. Engkand hockey are still mithering about deciding whther it’s fair to have men on women’s teams

Don't know about tw but they'll possibly be some men with DSDs.

Coe has been shameful about protecting grassroots and amateur sports for women from men with lady brains™️.

Christine Mboma could well qualify in the 100/200m athletics, depends on ability to run a qualifying time in next 6 weeks.

The main issue is that any sport that has not put a policy in place to keep the women’s category for women only (which is effectively only swimming, other sports have testosterone cut offs) could have a male, and there’s no way of knowing until everyone turns up and starts competing.

Has he not heard about runners like Caster Semenya?

Tell him to google Fallon Fox and Tammika Brents.

I get so annoyed by it but am not good at articulating the problem. I've only recently been aware of the issue myself and confess don't understand all the terminology used (such as cis). MN has been helpful.

But DH just shrugs and says the general public won't stand for it so it will never be widespread. Numpty indeed!

Examples help, so thanks for the links.

dont forget to tell him that at grassroots level generally TW will be using the same changing rooms as the rest of the women. Is he happy for your DD to be expected to share changing rooms with men?

This is the case he always cites when we discuss this, as he thinks it will only be people who are born with this (or similar) conditions, where their sex is indeterminate who will be able to compete.with women. Which is rare.

He can't comprehend how a man will be able to. So to him it's a non issue.

The only thing he said was if a man competed in a female category at the olympics he will sit up and take notice.

Well he’s definitely an idiot because Semenya’s sex is 100% male. Sorry OP🤣

The only thing he said was if a man competed in a female category at the olympics he will sit up and take notice.

Except he hasn’t noticed the ones in the past like Hubbard?

From the last Olympics there was also the Canadian Archer.

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2021/07/06/whats-current-mary-simon-named-canadas-first-indigenous-governor-general/

There would have been more but Tiffany abreu didn’t go for Brazilian basketball. And several male athletes just missed out from the USA - cece tefler was one, plus there was a cyclist in reserve.

Casters sex is not indeterminate - there’s no puzzling third sex. Caster is male - only men can have the DSD caster has

I believe it was Rio in 2016 when all 3 medal winners of the women's 800m were biological males with the same rare DSD.

And the famous 'terf island' image showed engagement on Twitter after 'Laurel' Hubbard's appearance at an Olympic Games, where that unfit, middle aged man who had recently suffered an injury and did poorly at his lifts, took a place from a woman.

Remind him of Rio 800 m.

All three medals went to male athletes with DSDs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%2527s_800_metres

He might be confused. ‘rare’ in the general community does not translate to being the same ‘rare’ rate at the Olympics. And again, ask him how many female people being displaced is ok with him.

All three medallists in the women's 800m at the Rio Olympics in 2016 were males with DSDs - Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Wambui. Semenya was also the 800m gold medallist at the 2012 Olympics.

There's a lot of it in America which ultimately takes scholarships away from girls but he sounds like the kind of guy who won't be bothered about that as it's not on his doorstep...

www.foxnews.com/sports/transgender-high-school-runner-oregon-hears-boos-crowd-winning-girls-200-meter-state-title.amp

Thanks for the replies. I will certainly use these examples.

To play devils advocate here as I'm not sure myself, but those who won previously all seem to have DSD (I had to look that acronym up) so I assume it was argued they could be born women?

Do you think there will be any men who have undergone treatment (or have self ID) coming through into elite women's sports?

I would also ask him if he thinks that it is only at Olympics we should worry. The NCAA events this year have had a number of female athletes cheated out of places.

ICONS on Twitter keeps us updated. Here are two male athletes receiving achievement awards that are meant to reward outstanding female athletes.

https://x.com/icons_women/status/1796268000540287183?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

NCAA Liberty League Conference honors its second male athlete participating on a women’s team this week.

Juniper (Tyler) Gattone from Ithaca College awarded as part of the WOMEN’s novice crew of the year. Sadie (Camden) Shreiner won 2 @NCAA All-American awards in track this week as well.

In the USA, cyclocross has had numerous event wins (some with prize money, I believe) from male athletes in female events. Here is two.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12626083/amp/Transgender-cyclists-gold-silver-Chicago-races.html

Does he follow what has been happening in female European pool and snooker? Lynne Pinches keeps us up to date on these. Sarah Dunn was the latest woman to forfeit in protest in snooker.

https://x.com/pincheslynne/status/1794841079474524450?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

“Fantastic news Snooker Player Sarah Dunn Conceded her match tonight against transgender player Nikola Broyak 👏 👏 👏 who in a previous round beat a 15 year old girl!!”

Lynne has encourages women in pool and snooker to do what Lynne did in forfeiting in protest.

This was the case that really alerted me to the issue so I searched for more info. The more I read the more enraged I became but even talking to friends and family both male and female, no one seems to be that bothered or engaged with the issue.

I agree, until it affects people personally I'm not sure mainstream folk see a problem.

DSDs affect a miniscule percentage of the population and they are sex specific. So some only affect males and some only affect females. This has been known for decades and is known by the athletes themselves and their scouts/ managers, whatever they are called. Indeed, males with certain DSD's have been deliberately sought out in order to win medals by cheating.

To play devils advocate here as I'm not sure myself, but those who won previously all seem to have DSD (I had to look that acronym up) so I assume it was argued they could be born women?

no it can’t. The DSD they have is 46 XY 5-ARD (5-alpha-reductase deficiency) ONLY those born male can have this DSD. They were born male, they are men with a DSD

To play devils advocate here as I'm not sure myself, but those who won previously all seem to have DSD (I had to look that acronym up) so I assume it was argued they could be born women?

They were not born women. They were not even born girls. They have always been male.

And the winning doesn’t matter. Hubbard took the place of a woman becoming an Olympian. You become an Olympian by competing in the Olympics, you don’t have to win.

www.shewon.org