Will there be any males in women's teams at the Olympics?

[iknownothingnow]

Discussing men in women's sports with my husband, who believes it will never happen (despite me telling him it already is). He asked if this will be the case during the olympics?

Can anyone give me any info to back up my argument as, if not this time, perhaps it will be the norm in years to come?

I want my DH to engage with this issue as we have sporty girls in the family, but although he agrees with me he just thinks it will never be allowed so not worth worrying over.

It was the Dolatowski case that did for me. D offended in Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy. I used to work there in the latter place.

If you get a chance, have a quick look at maps online. D is from Kirkcaldy. Torturer/Murderer Peter Laing/Paris Green is from Glenrothes. Andrew Burns/Obi Wan Kenobi/Mr Mighty Almighty/Mitzababy/Tiffany Scott is from one of the villages in between those two towns, Kinglassie.

It's clear where Burns got his ideas from. "Isla Bryson" claimed trans ID after being got and there had already been a great deal of publicity in Scotland about Andrew Burns "transitioning" in prison.

Re: Hubbard

(If I've missed this link on someone else's post, apologies.)

This BBC Report actually includes the Samoan coach's complaint about Hubbard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rachel-mckinnon-becomes-first-transgender-woman-win-track-world-title-397473

I would suggest your husband reads the IOC guidelines:
https://olympics.com/ioc/human-rights/fairness-inclusion-nondiscrimination

and compares this to the https://www.saflii.org/images/cassummary.pdf DSD ruling.

Note how the language has changed, the DSD ruling clearly sets out the justification for the existence of the female category whereas the more recent fairness and inclusion principles focuses on non discrimination on the basis of gender identity and non presumption of competitive advantage.

It is worth highlighting how many times the latest framework prioritises inclusion but shifts the responsibility to the individual sport and country organisations and states that no athlete will be disqualified if they have satisfied the requirements of their own qualification organisation.

Note also how this is different to the https://movingtoinclusion.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Guidance-For-Transgender-Inclusion-In-Domestic-Sport-2021.pdf. which states 'Competitive fairness cannot be reconciled with self-identification into the female category in gender- affected sport.' This was published in 2021 but has not been adopted by all sports in the UK and is not also reflected in other countries.

He should also read the policies of individual sporting organisations - maybe choose one... and see how they balance inclusion with fairness and inclusion....

Many policies talk about how those that question gender identity should be subject to some sort of disciplinary procedure. While the 2021 guidance from the UK Sporting Bodies is clear (there are loop holes), these have not been implemented by all sports and are not reflected in the policies of other countries..

I cannot see any evidence that the Olympic Games 2024 will ensure fairness of the female category.

iknownothingnow · Today 08:47

Discussing men in women's sports with my husband, who believes it will never happen (despite me telling him it already is).

Tell him to follow the example of this husband and pull his head out of the sand.

On the subject of Hubbard, he not only robbed a young woman of her place on the team, he robbed all the women of his country, by not even bloody well competing!

Sadly OP there are also many female athlete voices who have been punished for asking for female only events to be female only.

Look up April Hutchison. She was suspended. The male who competes in her event expressed incredulity about women not being very good at the even really.

https://x.com/piersuncensored/status/1708933276180545554?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12429867/amp/canada-powerlifting-transgender-ultimatum-global-federation.html

This is the delightful Andres

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/rita-panahi/lefties-losing-it-trans-woman-questions-why-female-powerlifters-are-so-bad/video/4ef84def68ae517ef29b3de00cfb7399

Show him pictures of Hannah Mouncey

And the girls who forfeited their shot put event:

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/middle-school-girls-banned-from-track-competition-for-protesting-trans-sports-policies/amp/

Its very sweet that your husband thinks that people care enough about women's sports to see the obvious injustice, but sadly the evidence shows that in very many cases, that's simply not true.

Males are currently competing against women in almost all sports and at all levels and large parts of the mainstream press (including BBC and other left leaning ones) do a good job of suppressing it.

If there are men competing against women in women's events then it just renders the entire games pointless. It's not right and it's not fair so why would biological women want to be put through the humiliation 😡

The pictures of Mouncey are up thread…

This image of Mouncey is a good one

Oliver Brown - Chief Sports writer at the Telegraph has written extensively about all the male cheats competing in women's sports. Here he talks about the captured IOC and how they've failed to protect women's Olympic sports:

This website is useful too - www.boysvswomen.com

Sharron Davies lists example after example in her excellent book unfair play, mentioned upthread

She also goes on to set out how the benefits of male puberty just cannot be undone, even where a male is suppressing testosterone - they already have longer limbs, bigger hands, stronger bones, more explosive power, more efficient cardiovascular system and more streamlined hips from their teens.

Suppressing their testosterone as a fully developed adult can't undo these advantages.

This is why we had women's sport in the first place!

All the biased news coverage about trans people in sport is focused on trans women - there are vanishingly few trans men (ie born females) clamouring to play against/ with born males.

So it's not all about being kind and inclusive of 'trans people', it's about prioritising men over women. Trans men don't get a look in. Strangely, no one seems to care because they're actually women and because misogyny.

Sanchez Manning in the Telegraph reporting on Ice Hockey and 14 year old girls being forced to play against adult men who are allowed to play in the women's teams. As ever, the fear of players and their families about speaking out demonstrates the persistent threats and bullying used to enforce this legalised cheating in women's sport:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/01/female-ice-hockey-transgender-policy-safety-concerns/

Won't be long before the likes of China are sending all male teams for the women's events.

Agreed, male puberty can't be "undone" even if testosterone levels are lower....which is why trans-men wouldn't have a hope of competing at any impactful level with biological men.
(Biological females will be at a disadvantage in both categories if tw compete in womens sport)

Regarding Caster Semenya, there's a picture in their own autobiography as a teen in swimming trunks, very clearly a teenage boy!

@WittiestUsernameEver ... why China... we can look to the IOC, who have completely changed the narrative in recent years, grassroots organisations in many sports in the UK and US.. the head of Athletics who said he would die in a ditch to protect the rights of transwomen to play in the category in which they identify. There is no 'normal people'outcry.. footballers in Australia are banned from playing if they complain.. we don’t need to put this on 'others' on the 'cheaters'.. this is on 'us'.

Of course is there is evidence of this happening in China.. please do share..

I'm saying there are some countries that are more unscrupulous when it comes to this kind of thing, and yes, China being one of them.

If they and other countries think they can win medals by sending all male teams... They will.

That picture 😄 'is a man, right'!

Didn't he change his name to Ivy something, because people kept calling him McKinnon and it sounded too masculine.

Yes, Veronica Ivy which can be shortened to Ron

🤣

This makes me so sad. I knew so many young women at US universities there on sports scholarships that may not have afforded to go to college had they not had them. To think of even one being denied that because of a sub-standard male that can’t make it in his own sex category boils my blood. Of course Biden seems intent on destroying all of the good Title IX did.

A pair of Chinese runners who won the highest place at a women’s relay at a recent national track and field finals went viral on social media due to their appearance.
Liao Mengxue and Tong Zenghuan finished first and second places in 53.25 and 53.35 seconds, respectively, in the 400-meter women’s relay at the National Track and Field Championships and Grand Prix Finals in Daqing, Heilongjiang province last week.