single sex schools

[MarieDeGournay]

Girls do better in exams at all-girls schools than mixed, research finds | Schools | The Guardian
I remember research showing that was true some time ago, then it was debunked, now it's back again
As a product of all-girl schools, I've always believed it was very beneficial. Given that I was gender-non-conforming to the point of dysphoria, that might sound strange, and I did feel a huge disconnect with my classmates; but if I'd been in a mixed school I'd have been drawn towards the boy-side, whereas in an all-girls' school, I just had to work out a way to be a different kind of girl.
And I had the female teachers - even the science teachers - as role models. I wouldn't have worked things out as well in a mixed school, I think.

That's not even mentioning the shocking rate of sexual harassment of girls in mixed schools.

Here in Ireland, single-sex schools are disappearing in a blaze of 'aren't we wonderfully progressive?' but I think it may be one more thing we wish we'd held on to. Any thoughts?

Ireland seems to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater in its bid to reject, and oppose, its history of Catholicism and clerical abuse.

I don't think it's only Ireland. The last (not-private?) girls' only school in Scotland accepted boys in 2019 (Notre Dame).

In England, I'm aware of a few single-sex schools, but the ones around here have co-ed Sixth Forms (with the majority of the sixth formers being pupils of the same sex as the general school intake, since most stay on at the same school).

I went to a single-sex school and I think it was a positive experience. There was still some harassment, though not boy-on-girl. We had some boys in the sixth form (as above), though some classes you still got only female classmates.

I wrote a dissertation on this and yes it's true! The main takeaways were:

1. Both boys and girls perform better in single sex schools
2. Boys need girls in school to regulate their behaviour
3. Boys from single sex schools are more likely to divorce in future and have issues with relationships, self esteem and mental health problems
4. Girls thrive in the absence of boys emotionally and socially. There is less pressure to adhere to beauty standards, eating disorders are less prevalent and girls have higher self esteem
5. Girls from single sex schools are more likely to pursue powerful jobs and roles in STEM

Essentially, boys need girls but boys' presence in school is detrimental to girls.

I'd always recommend anyone with a daughter to send them to a single-sex school and anyone with a son to send them to a co-ed school

@Sunny678 yeah, I've seen similar conclusions. Most studies seem to say it's the same in marriage - single women are happier (on average) than married women, but married men are happier than single men.

Men need us more than we need them. So why is there a long-standing stereotype of women being desperate to bag a man, while the men can take us or leave us?

https://oxbridgeapplications.com/kyc/women-happiest-unmarried/

I couldn't even tell you where my nearest all girl school is. The all-girl private went co-ed in 2005.

In England is it more common in areas that have Grammars still? My nephew was at all boys (state) grammar, not an option where I live.

I didn't know it had been debunked, but I have always thought it was bloody obviously so very true.

Obviously v v anecdotal; I have a group of close girl friends. those who went to girls' school appear to have so much more confidence and no body / looks issues. Those of us who went to state mixed have much less and some image issues. But are more savvy / aware of the world, the need for feminism etc. former not terfy. Latter terfs, cos we remember how hard it was.

Two high school girls at a single sex Catholic High School in New Orleans, St Mary's Academy, solve 2,000 year old math problem. Their interview on 60 minutes is very interesting.
Of course the school President said people around the nation couldn't believe that two Black teen girls could be so highly intelligent and mathematically creative. They also each came up with an original answer, they didn't both work on the same answer.
www.cbsnews.com/news/high-school-students-pythagorean-theorem-trigonometry-proof-60-minutes/

I am in the USA so I hope you can open this in the UK. Here is another short interview with the girls
abcnews.go.com/US/2-new-orleans-teenagers-proved-2000-year-pythagorean/story?id=98207106

I went to an all girls school. When I was about 15 I played in the netball team and competed against other schools.
One game took place in a mixed school and afterwards we had to use the toilet cubicles to get changed. We’d only been in there minutes when a crowd of 15/16 yr old boys barged in. They were climbing over the cubicle walls and crawling on the floor to get to us. The sports coach heard the commotion and came in to rescue us. That was my only experience of a mixed school and I am forever thankful for an all girls school.

My most favourite movie ever is ‘Hidden Figures’ ❤️

I started a thread on this and there’s been some
argument about the above - if you feel so inclined would you be able to repost that? Thanks! (It’s in AIBU - eek)

It's really fascinating isn't it. But really, no wonder the patriarchy tries to keep us in our place! If only all women knew we held the power.

I went to a girls school and had a very positive experience. I adored the strong female atmosphere - it was normal to be surrounded by high achieving girls, it wasn’t seen as unusual or them ‘breaking the barriers’. Just normal. The headteacher was female and a force to be reckoned with. We never had to worry about male behaviour, it felt totally safe and even discussing periods out loud was normal. Girls played football, cricket and rugby. I have lifelong friendships and it’s a privilege to know such intelligent and strong women.

Anyway, my girls school thread is being bombarded with stereotypes about eating disorders and ‘girls who go sex mad after sixth form because they’ve never seen a boy before’. SMH it’s mad how many people are suspicious of exclusively female spaces.

i can only comment based on personal experience, but I went to an all-girls school and have sent my DDs to an all-girls school.

I think all-girls is a great way to reduce gender stereotypes because, with no boys around, the girls can take on science/ maths subjects and be great without the social pressure to flatter the boys. the girls can ask questions in class and can take up space as they like.

there is data for this too - girls in single-sex schools are more likely to choose physics a-level.
https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2023/07/why-are-girls-in-single-sex-schools-more-likely-to-choose-a-level-physics/

I went to an all girls school from the ages of 7-15. It was fantastic, it was such a supportive environment, we were encouraged to excel at studies and sport. No one cared about fashion or looks.
The last 2 years it went to mixed sex. It was horrible, the girls suddenly became coy and worried about boys, their clothes, their bodies .gods it was so cliche; while I now had to deal with sexist assumptions, remarks and anger as I was smarter.
I was naive though, when I went to uni, I was totally unprepared for the sexism and sexual harassment.

In Bath there’s not just an all-girls GDST school but also a state school.

My daughter is going to an all girls school. My boys too, a mix of Dh wants and the school i have in mind works so hard to create good men and it’s not fair to inflict my boys on other girls as a civilising influence .

Have you seen the other thread about this topic? Very different replies.

I don't think young women should be educationally disadvantaged in order to prepare them for the male dominated adult world where they're likely to experience violence and harassment from men. It seems women, as always, have to choose the lesser of two evils.

My nieces are at an all girl school. One difference that struck me is girls played at break time for longer ie into older year groups. At my DC mixed sex school (primary) by the time they were 9/10 girls tended to hang around at the sidelines and chat whilst the boys dominated the playground space.

I think that overall there is a lot to be said for single sex schools. And they offer differernt benefits at differernt ages.

I also think a great model can be to have a boys and girls school in close association. That can allow for largely separate education, but also some interaction where it adds value. School plays, choirs, band or orchestra, potentially some very specialized classes in upper years that might only attract a small number of kids, and I am sure there are other things too. It might be that this could avoid some of the disadvantages of totally single sex education while retaining the benefits.

I went to a single sex secondary and had I had daughters, I would have liked them to have done so, too.

I hate the argument " they don't know how to relate to the opposite sex." I saw boys on the school bus, at swimming club, in town, at various other places. School isn't the only place I went.

The presence of males is detrimental to females from birth to death it seems.

Like pp, I went to and sent both DDs to single sex school in order for them to feel that STEM was normal for girls, even if that wasn't their ultimate choice. The youngest said something interesting to me recently - everyone at the school wants a trousers option in the uniform for practicality and warmth in winter. The head is currently considering it. (DD is in U6th so won't affect her). Apparently at the local mixed grammar, (where Dd has a very good friend dating from primary days) no girl will wear trousers for fear of being labelled a lesbian. Whereas being lesbian or gender non-conforming is entirely accepted at DDs school - homophobia really isn't a thing.

The 'sex-mad' stereotype is, I think, wrong-headed. By growing up a bit before being thrown into a mixed-sex setting, my (and my DD's) experience is that true platonic friendships with men are more normal than for girls growing up in a febrile puberty mixed-sex setting. Anecdotal of course.

I went to an all girls state school in London and took maths and physics A levels as a shy girl who would never have picked those subjects if boys were in the class.

My DSs went/ go to a single sex state grammar but both have girlfriends and female friends outside of school. I am glad that they are not distracted by their hormones during the school day. All but one of our local grammars are single sex but ours is looking to take girls in for 6th form next year. Another boys school has done this locally and it has improved their overall results so I suspect that’s the motivation here!

@CosplayingAGrownUp I find it strange that the girls aren’t allowed trousers, we were allowed them back in 1982 in our girls school.