People who just don't get it

[Crowgirl]

Sorry all. I'm just fed up. Old dear friend over tonight all of the well with shouldn't we be kind? Trans women don't have penises. It's not about sterrotyoes. No one thinks kids should be treated medically. JK Rowling is mean. Of course trans sisters should be allowed in women's spaces

My head is going to explode. The absence of critical thinking is too much. I never start threads but I am so sad., so angry and so perplexed.

Sorry but I gave up debating this shit a long time ago and somehow got drawn into shaming tonight. The absence of critical thinking is beyond me.

It is insane when this happens. It’s really, really hard not to rant. I know I sound crazed when I let my gob run away with me. I honestly think lots of people still don’t think it affects THEM so don’t care. Until it does.

As for men - the school of thought with men is definitely “if he is willing to chop his dick n’balls off it must be truly desperate” and therefore that man deserves to be treated as a woman on the basis of this ultimate sacrifice. They certainly aren’t threatened by it - any more than they are threatened by a trans-identified female. They are no more than comic oddities to Mr Average.

It’s only when the realisation there’s no surgery required for the bearded lady to pop into their daughter’s changing area that the penny drops.

Lots of people don't tend to put much thought into difficult or complex issues - preferring to rely on glib statements like 'we can all get along'.

There is a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding of transgenderism (and gender activists deliberately avoid correcting people because it works in their favour). Plenty of folks still think 'trans' people, especially men, get their penis surgically removed. Or that men who call themselves trans are mostly gay. Once they realise the vast majority of men who call themselves women keep their penis, and they see all the blokes calling themselves a lesbian - blind acceptance plummets dramatically.

Generally, people tend not to care about an issue until it significantly affects them or their families. So it's definitely frustrating when nothing you say seems to be getting through.

Isla Bryson, Karen White, Laurel Hubbard. Get your dear friend to explain these characters to you.

yes, it’s really frustrating. I’d love to have a proper conversation about why people think these things (what they mean by ‘woman’ etc), but somehow that’s never acceptable. Asking reasonable questions is called a dogwhistle, or there is some other social punishment. As you say OP the absence (and rejection) of critical thinking is unbelievable

I'm lucky not to have had anyone shame me or even disagree with me but I have obviously read and heard of it many times.

I'm at the point where in this situation I will be turning the tables - "how on earth can anyone suggest that a male must be castrated to be able to be themselves? And all the associated health issues there. I really don't think anyone should be told they should to help mental health when it might not and they may regret it." And some reference to failure rates and complications

And then move on to

"How can anyone be arguing for 12 year old girls to be forced to share toilets and changing rooms with adult males?"

Thoroughly enjoyed a sneaky discussion where I commented on the state of Scottish politics and someone else asked why NS had gone and I showed the pink legging pic with "basically because she said this rapist was a woman."

My 70 year old mother who brought me up to be a feminist astounded me last week when she saiid “I don’t know why people keep talking about this. Surely it a private matter”. She fondly remembers some cross dressers from the 70s who were really quite sweet. Never once considered the impact on women and children, and I am not sure she believed me when I explained rapists and abusers had been sent to Women’s prisons.

Most people buy their opinions ready-made. So in a lot of cases, the only question asked, 'What's the correct/'progressive' set of views?' 'Fine, I'll take the lot.'

Lots of people don't tend to put much thought into difficult or complex issues

It's mostly been this in my experience. Yet some of them feel entitled to berate those of us who have really put some thought into it.

I have had the ‘progressive’ argument and I wish I had replied: well, in my world progress would be for these feminised men to be welcome by their male peers.

It can be useful to go back to the nub of transgenderism - 1950s regressive sex based roles and what is deemed 'correct' behaviour/dress/toys for boys and girls, men and women.

Nothing progressive about this monstrous movement at all.

I've had two otherwise nice, considerate male relatives ask where the poor TW should go as they're not safe in the men's toilets. Both literally open-mouthed when I asked why it was women's problem to solve.

They get it now.

There is so much batshittery around, masquerading as 'kindness' or even worse, 'progressiveness', that it's hard to do anything except fume or splutter - well that's me, anyway
There are some great suggestions from posters here, and I think it's a good idea to have prepared responses - delivered with a world-weary nonchalance - like '1950s stereotypes, it's just sooooo regressive' accompanied by an eyeroll. Or a Gallic shrug.
I'm off to practise in front of a mirror..

Yes and this is because it had never actually occurred to them before you set them straight. It's amazing really - men live in a bubble.

Honestly, while I abhor people like IB, if you think that is the only reason NS left power then I think you are a tad misled.
(It's a tangent for this thread though).

Where would you like them to go? The woman's that is individual cubicles or the men's with open urinals. It's maybe the urinals that is the issue here, maybe it's time toilets were just cubicles in a room with sinks in the middle open to everyone. Keeps everyone happy.

"Where would you like them to go? The woman's that is individual cubicles or the men's with open urinals. It's maybe the urinals that is the issue here, maybe it's time toilets were just cubicles in a room with sinks in the middle open to everyone. Keeps everyone happy."

The men's. Not sure why you think urinals are a problem given virtually none of them cut their knobs off. HTH

@sleepyscientist women's facilities are for women. Not men with special identities. Women should not be forced into accepting unisex toilets.

What about sports? How many trans identifying men is too many on a woman's team?

Yeah, had this from DH last weekend.

We went to the local theatre. Since our last visit, the Gents are still the same but the Ladies are "inclusive". I was not impressed. A) why my loos, not his? B) confusing signage especially not not first language English patrons.

Exactly- so much quicker for them to use the urinals.

Absolutely agree. And have grown tired of ‘explaining’ why this issue affects us all. Though we must remember to keep on.

There are still many people who just don’t get it. If explained to them they often realise and change their minds, they ‘get it’.

But remember how the TRA people behave. It is in their interest to propagate the myth it’s all harmless, stop being mean you meanie TERF!! Urgh.

They wilfully encourage the general publics misunderstanding. It’s better now than a year ago but still, awful. And Keir ‘some women have penises’ Starmer will make it much much worse.

Of course because the gender woo lobby have confused people by using terms like ‘trans woman’ (to describe a man who wants to be a woman), it’s an uphill battle. Lots of people still think a trans woman is a biological female.

There are males and females. Some males and females have genuine sex based dysphoria. But that’s it.

Sex is real. Gender is a social construct that is so malleable it means fck all these days.

We need to keep on keeping on, fighting the language takeover that’s been so powerful. Ask questions when someone uses ‘gender’ or ‘identity’ or ‘cis’ or ‘trans’ wtf are they talking about? They soon get mixed up because it is after all, utter nonsense.

In all of this, it’s men who gain and women who lose. Never forget.

It’s not just this subject, there are lots of areas where people just think well it doesn’t bother me so it’s ok, or well it only inconveniences a small number of people so what’s the big deal? I have a very strong sense of right and wrong and I find it hard to just go along with these things.

I had this with my mother. She didn't believe me when I told her it was the policy in Canada, and that there had been protests by female prisoners.

I sent her some material and in one fell swoop she was off the "Be Kind" wagon, and her faith in the CBC was irrevocably destroyed.

It's women as much as men. Or, in my experience, even more often.

The point here is that many people don’t understand that this is a women’s sex-based rights issue, affecting all women and children. It’s not a ‘trans’ issue affecting 0.01% of the population.