Non binary changing rooms???

[Gcn]

Name changed as outing. Yesterday a member of staff told me that "they" are unhappy using either the male or female changing rooms in work, because as non binary they don't feel safe in either. They've been using the (ladies) loo to get changed in but aren't happy and think we should provide non binary changing rooms.

I think that's madness. So they aren't happy getting changed with just men or just women, but would be happy to share a changing room with both???

Work is all about the kindness, and supporting staff - so I've been told by manager to find a solution.. Great

What would you do?

This....but of course this isn't what happens is it? Mustn't disturb the men folk - it has to be us that makes room and gives up our spaces, despite the fact that it's women who really need single sex spaces the most.

Stick a piece of A4 with ‘non binary’ written on it in pen over the sign that says ‘men’. Problem solved.

Well we all know in hindsight what being kind and sharing has done for women and previously safe spaces for women, are you suggesting that disabled people should also be grateful to have their spaces hijacked share too?

By "any other belief" I mean in a similar way to how you might approach a request for a designated prayer room.

This employee has a belief ("we all have a gender identity") that not everyone holds.

Some useful food for thought on balancing belief and discrimination is on this X thread:

https://twitter.com/SVPhillimore/status/1786654538411188622?t=CJALFpkI8BSKPoS43U31Lw&s=19

Impact analysis for 3b could also include a survey to understand how people are affected by any designated spaces that might be suggested by the management team at step 1 if they think this option should be explored.

Well, given I have to change my son in a filthy accessible/disabled toilet after swimming because he's not allowed in the girls' changing room, and I'm not allowed in the boys', I'd say there's your solution.

They can get changed in the loo. There's a precedent for people who fit neither category. Or they can source funding for building a shed.

I know you probably meant as a joke, but I'm sure that actually in some scenarios it's quite a sound idea. Particularly when the woman's is usually in higher demand or has a queue.

Some women will do it anyways, at times, but why not actively welcome and encourage it, as an option not a requirement, and train men to not expect everyone in their space to be male/consider themselves male? On the women side its about safety but men? No such requirement, just cultural beliefs generally rooted in misogyny or patriarchal values 🤷‍♂️ Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys about sharing space, so long as the space gives everyone adequate privacy & they're not dirty (it's a low bar to beat, I despair sometimes)

It's not an ideal solution but might shut down the non binary person for a bit. Sounds like one person at this work place is making a (fucking stupid) point. I don't agree with pandering to this bollox either. It's just an idea. I wish they'd all go away.

You can't just relabel the Men's anyway, as I imagine any Muslim male employees - the more devout/conservative ones who don't shake hands with women and wear long sleeved tops and trousers all year round - may not be too chuffed.
And religion is legally a protected characteristic.

I'd have a meeting with them and HR (esp. anyone sensible with a legal background), get them to do as much talking as possible, say nothing yourself, and take it from there. With any luck the issue may evaporate...

Why do they have to change at work? Is it a legal requirement of your workplace , like haz mat suits, or just convenience if you don’t want to wear a uniform outside work?

They could change at home ( what into?) because that is presumably both ‘safe’ and ‘non binary’.

Are they male or female??

Attention seeking shite. Non binary doesn't exist

Just get head of facilities or whatever to write them a letter assuring them that as an inclusive organisation, the female changing room includes non binary people assigned female at birth, and the male changing room includes non binary people assigned male at birth.

I'm assuming "unsafe" is code for not affirmed enough, but if it's more than that then obviously that should be investigated.

You said female body.
So really what this person's means is, they know they are not male, so are scared to change in that room.
By changing in the female, they are admitting they know the truth.
So tell your boss the only option is to provide a new room...
How ever there is a f you option....
Which ever room is free gets shut for 5 mins to let this person change alone...
Hope you have more women than men, and they object.

Why does your place of work need changing rooms for the staff?

At my place of work we sometimes choose to change clothes (eg gym wear) but we do it in the toilets which are unisex anyway.

It depends why this person needs to change at work, to depend on the outcome.

If it’s choice then you don’t need to do anything about it.

If they have to change, then just take the signs down or just take the sign from the men’s one down, then they can’t be offended.

Definition of safe:
protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.

Advocating for a private mixed sex changing space goes against safeguarding due to all the associated risks.

The fact that people in disabled toilets already are exposed to increased risk is the thing that’s shameful already.

This.

Don't forget that "disagreeing with my belief system" is the worst kind of violence according to the Holy Church of the Gender Woo. Unless the employer has vigorous expunged and reeducated all non-believers you could end up sharing a changing room with someone who Doesn't Believe!

This.

Disabled facilities are for disabled people. Telling disabled people to budge up and share with non-disabled people who “don’t feel safe” in sex-segregated changing rooms and toilets is exactly the same as telling women to budge up and share with those of the male sex who “don’t feel safe” in men’s changing rooms and toilets.

If you don’t accept the argument that women should budge up and share with one man so that he “shuts up for a bit” - and we seem to have a consensus that this would not be acceptable - then why should the same reasoning not be applied to those few spaces set aside for disabled people?

@Gcn

"Hi Manager. I've been giving some thought to our non binary changing room conundrum. We can put signs on the changing room doors. We'll replace the sign on the men's with "Male (men, trans women and AMAB non binary and gender diverse people)" and the sign on the women's with, "Female (women, trans men and AFAB non binary and gender diverse people)". That way everyone's gender identity is acknowledged. You know as well as I do that there isn't an extra space we can repurpose to be a non binary changing room for the benefit of one or two people, and even if there was, it's hard to justify the cost given that there has been a public sector pay freeze for almost 15 years now. I think it's quite offensive of them to say that they don't feel safe sharing women's changing rooms with their female colleagues; there is absolutely no risk of them coming to any actual harm in our company. If this is unacceptable to them then I don't see another solution than for them to carry on changing in the women's toilets as they have been doing up to now. I can't see any other solution, other than making the existing changing rooms unisex which would be obviously unacceptable to pretty much everyone else."

Are they prejudging peoples binary status?

Note from an (otherwise excellent) comment above that it's not 'one person' who gets raped per day in UK schools, its one girl.

Sex matters.

There you go

I don't know - but surely if we want to keep safe spaces for women the world does have to change for it to be the norm to have three options?

But as this is public sector the chances are despite being labelled as being segregrated by sex, the relevant policy will tell you that the toilets/shower rooms/changing facilities are already actually segregated by self-identified gender. And that as a non-binary/gender fluid person you can make the choice which facilities to use depending on how you feel about yourself in that moment. (I'm not joking. This is what the policy at my place of work says - thank you Stonewall). If this is the same for you all facilities are already mixed sex and as your employee has full access to both I'm not really sure what else you can do.