Non binary changing rooms???

[Gcn]

Name changed as outing. Yesterday a member of staff told me that "they" are unhappy using either the male or female changing rooms in work, because as non binary they don't feel safe in either. They've been using the (ladies) loo to get changed in but aren't happy and think we should provide non binary changing rooms.

I think that's madness. So they aren't happy getting changed with just men or just women, but would be happy to share a changing room with both???

Work is all about the kindness, and supporting staff - so I've been told by manager to find a solution.. Great

What would you do?

we Segregate changing rooms by sex - what sex is this person?

providing a separate changing room just for NB people (possibly a single person ) will be expensive so I’d get some costings done and do a cost benefit analysis which will show it’s ludicrously expensive. I’d point out that the public sector finances are in a terrible state so any expenditure like this would look very bad on the front page of the local media. I’d suggest that that being the case, the men’s changing room could be changed to NB

If there is no way to provide another space and no other solution you'll have to pass it up so your manager can find a solution.

Inclusivity is important and you understand that everyone needs to have somewhere to change that meets their needs. To support all staff, changing rooms will now be for biological males of any gender and biological females of any gender. This means that all genders are catered for, not just men and women, and also those who cannot be in a state of undress in the presence of the opposite sex.

Super positive, future proofed for any cakegender etc staff that may join and doesn't fuck over women. Harder for them to argue against as surely it's transphobic to only cater to some genders and not all?

Bonus of little cost as rooms not changing, just the signs.

This is bonkers. This person (presumably a woman) has been using the ladies loos to get changed in but that's not good enough now. But they are still happy to use the ladies loos when they need to wee/poo/deal with their period? It makes no sense.
If it's privacy they want from others (men and women because they don't 'feel' either a man or a woman) then they've already got it in a cubicle in the ladies loos. Which they appear content to continue to use for it's usual purposes.
They must realise demanding a third loo is an ask too far for practical or financial reasons but are hoping for their own special converted broom cupboard with a non binary sign on the door.
I'm sure we'd all love our own changing room at work but those brooms need their space too.

But if the changing rooms have been labelled by sex then that is supportive of their feelings because the non binary person then knows exactly who they are likely to encounter in the changing rooms and can prepare for it. As other posters have pointed out, if a changing room was labelled non binary the possibilities are endless as to who would be using them.

Presumably non binary people make daily choices which refer to their sex in other areas of life eg buying underwear, personal hygiene care, contraception choice, standing up to pee or sitting down to pee, etc etc. The world isn’t going to change to accommodate their indecision.

Am I the only cynical one that now when I read a great solution about saying it is for male / female sex any gender that some staff will come along and state they are ‘female’ when they are male because that is on their legal documents. Ie. It is a no win situation.

I am sorry OP, it is not helpful. Can your HR department provide guidance? Is the person refusing to use the loos as well or are the toilets in the changing rooms?

In the public sector - there won't actually be any other rooms available as even the shed out the back is being used as an office with 3 people sitting on the bin as no budget for chairs.

I imagine this person is angling for all the toilets to be mixed sex.

Sorry, changing rooms.

What would the risk assessment look like for a mixed sex non binary changing room?

Tell them to get changed in their non binary car

Good point. The broom cupboards were converted into shared offices long ago and Sharon and Tracy have to coordinate getting to and from their desks because it's so tiny.

What has happened to make them feel unsafe? Could this be dealt with under standard behaviours and values guidance?

There is no money for a separate changing room. Changing rooms are sex based. End of conversation

Do you have a separate disabled changing room?

is this something that can be rebranded to accommodate more people?

for those who are saying that your colleague is happy to change with both sexes but not either this is not the case. They want somewhere for people who only identify as non-binary.

explain that a purely non binary changing room is not feasible and be curious about the fears. You may be able to alleviate some of them.

I would be asking the manager in good faith how they expect you to “sort” this. You can’t just magic up some “safe” non binary space out of thin air. I would liaise with HR. It’s not a one person situation it needs a policy and direction, even if the direction ultimately is not to offer anything further than the current set up. All of this seems very 2015 to me.

Bloody hell

We have mixed /multiple 🙄gender, single sex changing rooms available to accommodate everyone.

Assuming NB is female are they maybe getting ready to announce they're actually a bloke & therefore know they want a safe place away from the rest of the blokes when they do 🤔

I just can't with this shit, you poor thing 🍰🍫💐

They'll be telling you next that they don't 'feel' that there is enough money in sort pay, and will your manager ask you to sue that out too, or will it be a case of ' it's a hard no from us'.

Seriously, you do need to deal with the feelings of lack of safety, why these have arisen, what can be done to accommodate/mitigate these, address and objectively threatening behaviour, make modifications to existing facilities that may support privacy and dignity? Also are there other adjustments that could be made, e.g. could this person come into work a little earlier to use the correct-sex changing room when it's quieter.

We need to be careful not to be so open minded that our common sense falls out.

Disabled changing rooms are for disabled people who need them, and not for those who don't want to use other facilities.

There is a valid discussion to be had about the fact that those of us who need to use disabled facilities are usually forced to use mixed sex facilities. "Rebranding" disabled facilities (1) further obscures the problem of disabled people being forced to use mixed sex facilities, and (2) makes it harder for people who need to use facilities reserved for those who are disabled as they are being repurposed for non-disabled people who don't want to use the facilities that have been provided for them.

A plea to anyone making this sort of decision: please keep disabled facilities for disabled people. Disabled staff's working lives are difficult enough as it is.

We need to be careful not to be so open minded that our common sense falls out.

Thank you for that quote. I haven't heard it before, but will now be using it. A lot. 😀

for those who are saying that your colleague is happy to change with both sexes but not either this is not the case. They want somewhere for people who only identify as non-binary.

That is people of both sexes

Maybe this is where OP says that the only available space is not the proverbial broom cupboard but a room big enough to accommodate communal changing. And she's so glad Mx Enby has brought it up because Dave from Accounts has been asking too. Let Mx Enby find the words to ask whether or not Dave is a bloke of the old-fashioned kind.

Can you draw attention to the fact that all people are likely to be less safe in future in changing rooms and toilets. This is directly due to lobbying on gender neutral toilets for a government toilet consultation with has led to current policy goals of much more privacy and mixed sex facilities. The consultation for all non-home dwelling toilets is being reviewed at the moment.

The more privacy you have in public spaces, particularly in mixed sex spaces, the more problems there are when things go wrong.

Most sexual assaults that are reported, happen in mixed sex spaces.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

When mixed sex spaces have private areas, it leads to serious crimes like rape occurring. I don’t really want to highlight individual cases but at least 1 person gets raped inside a British school per school day (and this was before the gender neutral toilets became fashionable). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34138287

The example mentioned above was a school storeroom but you can guess what’s happening now in schools

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175

The major design fault is as soon as you have mixed sex toilets, the design has to be fully enclosed. Unfortunately if you googled disabled toilets and rape, you will find so many examples where able bodied and disabled people are either pushed or followed in and raped in toilets. This includes very public areas like the busiest stations and shopping centres.

The other time all people are most vulnerable is when they feel sick because people head to the toilet. If there are no door gaps at the bottom then there’s no way of knowing if the occupant has collapsed. If there’s no way of getting over the door and the door opens inwards with a body pushed against it, there’s no way of rescuing the person without a lot of time and equipment. This is the situation that will occur more if the government policy goals on toilet design are brought in.

The very action of going to the toilet causes more cardiac arrests etc due to the strain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3590314/

As well as heart attacks, there are situations such as strokes, seizures (drink spiking, drug taking, epilepsy, high temperature illness, brain injury), asthma attacks and hypos where it is really important you get to the occupant quickly. All of us need to be accessible at our most vulnerable for safeguarding. Smoke inhalation would be another problem in a building evacuation, for the extra time it takes for the rescuer to assess who is in a locked toilet too. A lot of fires start in toilets (people setting fire to loo rolls).

There is also the fact they may feel safer if they know if there is someone is outside their changing room or toilet cubicle by peering under the gap from inside the toilet. It is sometimes scary if you hear footsteps if you are on your own in a block but can’t see things so don’t know who you are opening the door to.

If this person values good hygiene it may be useful to note that the gaps are there for a mop to go under and disinfectant to be poured on the floor as it’s impossible to clean the cubicles as well otherwise. You get yucky bits on the walls and the full height door is more likely to warp and get jammed. Also you are more likely to breathe in the (poo particles in a toilet) germs of the last person in an enclosed space. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8523564/

Spell out what it actually means and say single sex facilities (with their door gaps) are better for everyone to stay safe.

And if they mention spying with phones, then the fact that gender neutral facilities are mixed sexed, brings up the problems that cubicles can be set-up beforehand, without detection.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/25/gang-hid-changing-rooms-pools-film-young-women-undressing/

I hope the government see sense. They have the opportunity to prevent a lot of assaults, serious injury and deaths.

Does your manager have an office? If so, perhaps she could give it up as the new non-binary changing room. Some blinds, sign on the door, job done.

How does she know that none of the other staff are non-binary? Is she expecting everyone to out themselves? That’s not very kind and inclusive, is it?

(Hypothetically obviously, because the first rule of gender woo is tell everyone repeatedly about your gender woo)

I’d put new labels on the doors saying ‘female and AFAB non binary’ and ‘Male and AMAB non binary’ and declare them to be safe spaces, much as the government has declared Rwanda a safe country.

I think you need to ask your manager what the budget is.

If it is any more than the price of laminating a new sign for the gents that says 'Gents and Non Binary' then I'm not really sure what else you can do. Other than get extortionate quotes for new facilities.