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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are women safer if they encounter a bear or a man in the woods?

243 replies

IcakethereforeIam · 29/04/2024 15:20

This is an interesting thought experiment

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/relationships/article-13360727/man-bear-viral-question-domestic-violence-australia-dating.html

The DM nick enough off MN, so no apology for returning the favour.

Definitely team bear here.

There are links to articles regarding DV in Australia.

This simple yet heavy 'viral' question is leading to breakups

A hypothetical question that asks whether women are safer if they encounter a bear or an unknown man in the forest has sparked a heated debate about male violence.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/relationships/article-13360727/man-bear-viral-question-domestic-violence-australia-dating.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Naunet · 01/05/2024 13:34

GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight · 01/05/2024 13:32

Oh and hate to point this out to you but bears aren't people

Maybe not, but they’re more civilised than some men.

GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight · 01/05/2024 13:35

Naunet · 01/05/2024 13:33

Yes, in some cases segregation, in areas where women are vulnerable, we need safe guarding because women’s safety matters more than mens feelings. We could also ban abusive porn and, here’s a really radical one, men could behave better.

In this thread though, people are saying they're vulnerable in the woods and being out by themselves.
Is segregation OK then? Just general being out by yourself?
As that's the logical conclusion.

tabulahrasa · 01/05/2024 13:35

ZeldaFighter · 01/05/2024 10:01

I thought it wasn't a real question? As in its simply a way to highlight the problem of male violence against women and girls? In a way that men can grasp simply?

The answer is take a gun and don't care.

I don’t think it was even that serious tbh, I’m pretty sure it started as a stupid - stop people in the streets and ask a random question thing.

But then a load of real angry men made it go viral.

HeraSyndulla · 01/05/2024 13:38

Depends if the bear has cubs !.

Naunet · 01/05/2024 13:40

GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight · 01/05/2024 13:35

In this thread though, people are saying they're vulnerable in the woods and being out by themselves.
Is segregation OK then? Just general being out by yourself?
As that's the logical conclusion.

I think that’s more of a call for men to behave better, not that they will. In Australia a woman was just killed by a man in the woods, what’s your solution? Bury your head in the sand and pretend these things don’t happen? Don’t let women talk about them? Do you acknowledge that women are vulnerable in some situations with men?

coldcallerbaiter · 01/05/2024 13:49

I would be a bit more scared of the bear.

If I had to choose, I would be in the woods with the man.

Yes, the man could be a rapist, and the bear isn’t in to that, good point. If he was a rapist he might not kill though. With the bear it will either run away or hurt you really badly or kill.

The probability of the man having bad intentions is low. You have just said a man, so statistically, how likely are they to be violent? Whilst a man is stronger than me generally, I know how to tackle one, and would kick and bite the right place. I do not know much about bears but I cannot negotiate with it, I cannot outwit it verbally and a bear can outrun me and climb trees and are powerful, I think.

Question, what about a baby left with man or bear? What now?

AGlinnerOfHope · 01/05/2024 14:38

ZeldaFighter · 01/05/2024 10:01

I thought it wasn't a real question? As in its simply a way to highlight the problem of male violence against women and girls? In a way that men can grasp simply?

The answer is take a gun and don't care.

But we aren’t allowed to shoot the man. Even if he rapes us or tries to rape us.

grinandslothit · 03/05/2024 01:43

Icemachine · 30/04/2024 13:18

Absolute nonsense, of course most men don't know a rapist.

Of course they do. Most rapes and assaults aren't even reported. Men who rape and assault women don't exactly advertise it.

grinandslothit · 03/05/2024 01:50

GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight · 01/05/2024 12:47

So what do you suggest then in reality, those who don't feel safe around men?
Segregating men and women like some countries do?

Maybe a curfew for men or ankle monitors.

carerlookingtochangejob · 03/05/2024 02:49

Wow! Watch this

www.instagram.com/reel/C6cFD06px1E/?igsh=OG1pMXF1cWg3MHJq

carerlookingtochangejob · 03/05/2024 02:55

Shortly followed by

www.instagram.com/reel/C6epSEZJ_j7/?igsh=MXEzcTZsa2RrZWllYQ==

I think I might love this guy!

INeedToClingToSomething · 03/05/2024 03:22

I find this debate a bit ludicrous tbh. But if I had to say I would definitely say man if we are assuming these are very small woods and I would definitely come across said man or bear. Statistically, the man is not likely to be a rapist, murderer or predator. There isn't a single man that I know (personally or professionally) that I wouldn't be happy to be trapped in a small room with let alone a wood tbh but most rapes and violence against women and girls are done by people they know anyhow. and not strangers in woods.

If I come across a close encounter with a bear I am very likely to get my face ripped off. Has anyone actually SEEN the results of a bear encounter. It's not fucking pretty and once they go for you they WILL not leave it until you are literally in pieces.

If it came to it I have much more chance of fending off a man than a bear.

If the man in question was definitely a rapist/murderer/predator then it would be a much harder choice. He's more likely to hunt me out, whereas I might be able to hide from a bear. But if it came to hand to hand combat then I'd have way more chance of beating a man than a bear even if the odds are definitely not in my favour.

INeedToClingToSomething · 03/05/2024 03:27

carerlookingtochangejob · 03/05/2024 02:49

His stats are ridiculous though. He's basically saying because you are unlikely to come across a bear, then the answer has to be bear. In which case the question makes zero sense.

carerlookingtochangejob · 03/05/2024 03:47

If I come across a close encounter with a bear I am very likely to get my face ripped off. Has anyone actually SEEN the results of a bear encounter. It's not fucking pretty and once they go for you they WILL not leave it until you are literally in pieces.
That's the point you're not! The overwhelming majority of bear encounters of all types result in the bear leaving. Not attacking!!!

carerlookingtochangejob · 03/05/2024 03:48

@INeedToClingToSomething you need to watch it again

Justcoincidences · 03/05/2024 04:22

Man.

AstonsStolenData · 03/05/2024 04:50

In many tourist areas, you're better off meeting a bear. E.g. Yosemite

Visitors who encounter a bear should keep their distance for safety and respect for themselves and the animal. . . . Attacks are rare, and no one has been killed or seriously injured by a black bear in Yosemite. [Ever.]

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/bears.htm

On the other hand, these are just a few of the assaults by men in the last few years:

A professional rock climber has been convicted of several sexual assaults at Yosemite National Park, prosecutors say.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/yosemite-rock-climber-faces-life-in-prison-after-conviction-on-sexual-assaults/

Park facilities employee sentenced to 12 years for attempted aggravated sexual abuse, abusive sexual contact, assault with intent to commit aggravated sexual abuse, assault with intent to commit abusive sexual contact, and assault by striking or wounding

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/pr/defendant-yosemite-national-park-sexual-assault-case-sentenced-more-12-years-prison

[A Yosemite Valley motel employee] confessed to the murder of Joie Armstrong. Over the next six hours, he also confessed to murdering the Sunds and Pelosso. He admitted to having had violent fantasies about killing women for the past 30 years and recounted every detail.

https://www.myyosemitepark.com/park/history/yosemite-serial-killer/

Speeding Kills Bears sign

Bears - Yosemite National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/bears.htm

asbigasablueberry · 03/05/2024 06:46

Seems like there are many crackpot men, but this site is full of their female counterparts.

carerlookingtochangejob · 03/05/2024 07:07

asbigasablueberry · 03/05/2024 06:46

Seems like there are many crackpot men, but this site is full of their female counterparts.

Sorry you what????

Now women who are standing up and raising the issue of male violence are as bad as the vile men who rape, assault and murder women??? WTAF???

No it's not ALL men! But it's enough of them!

Hoppinggreen · 03/05/2024 08:13

asbigasablueberry · 03/05/2024 06:46

Seems like there are many crackpot men, but this site is full of their female counterparts.

Yes, come on ladies.
Lets just all calm down and not be so hysterical, having opinions and expressing them like a bunch of "crackpots".
We can't risk upsetting mens feelings so its just better if we just keep quiet

Onionbelt · 03/05/2024 09:01

IncompleteSenten · 29/04/2024 21:47

It is interesting that the response from a lot of men has been to get angry rather than think oh my god, what the fuck has gone so badly wrong with men that women would rather take their chances with a bear

They simply defend their privilege as they have always done. It doesn't affect them, so we must be wrong.

MrsWhattery · 03/05/2024 09:08

Humans, like other animals, do judge and assess risk instinctively based on classes of people. I’m guessing if you were in the woods and encountered a small child alone you wouldn’t be scared and would know as an adult that you needed to help. Likewise a very elderly person. In the same way, women know that men do present a certain degree of risk that is much greater than the risk from other women. It doesn’t mean there’s zero risk from women but it’s so much smaller that it does make a difference and is the reason we have sex segregation in some situations. Especially where the situation raises the risk like where you’re going to be asleep, undressed, incapacitated etc.

I agree there are other ways of classifying people where it isn’t reasonable to be more scared of one class - like ethnicity, hair colour or people wearing hats. That doesn’t mean all cases of assessing the risk of a class of people are wrong. It’s a false comparison. Statistics back up the hugely greater risk from men than from women. With bears, it’s more complicated as there are so many different factors making it harder to compare. But I bet you’d be more scared of a bear than a dog - even though a dog could kill you. Making a class-based risk assessment is not inherently some kind of terrible prejudice.

Onionbelt · 03/05/2024 09:13

Naunet · 01/05/2024 12:29

My father, the one man in the world who is meant to protect me, sexually abused me from the age of 3. Trust me, that never leaves you and has shaped my view of men, a view that has only been solidified by reading the news and witnessing male behaviour with my own eyes. And yes I know, not all men, but far, far too many, but by the same token, not all bears will attack you, most people who run into a bear, don’t get killed. Meanwhile men literally get off on watching women being choked and crying. I’ll take my chances with a bear, because frankly. I’d rather die in a bear attack, than at the hands of a man.

❤I am so sorry.

Hoppinggreen · 03/05/2024 09:28

Onionbelt · 03/05/2024 09:01

They simply defend their privilege as they have always done. It doesn't affect them, so we must be wrong.

Yes, I Imagine they wonder whats wrong with Women rather than looking at their own sex

backinthebox · 03/05/2024 10:06

This is such a weird debate.

I work in an environment where I am locked, on my own, for hours at a time with a man I do not know. It’s a different man each time I go to work. The place I am locked in is a small bulletproof box only 10ft square. I will eat and sometimes sleep in close proximity with this man I do not know. Sometimes I have to sleep in a bunk which is even smaller still, and the only thing separating me from the man is a curtain down the middle of the bed.

In over 25 years of working like this, I’ve never felt threatened. I realise this puts me in a lucky position, but statistically, I should have encountered a threat somewhere along the way, and I haven’t.

I also take part in 2 sports which see me on my own in a forest, with men also taking part. They are there for taking part in the sport too. I feel comfortable asking them for help, and frequently run or ride with them. I’ve been in forests with wild animals in at night, and would rather take my chances with a man than a wild bear.

For me, a forest is generally a safe and welcoming place, I don’t feel uncomfortable in them. I feel a lot more threatened in a city walking on my own. This is despite there being more people around. I walk in a city in a state of alertness to people around me, because I don’t always feel safe. Statistically, you are more likely to be attacked, killed or raped in a city. Random attacks in the countryside make headline news precisely because they are so rare. We had one several years ago at the bottom of the hill from us. I still feel safer in my forest than in a city.

People’s perception of ‘safe’ is very much dependent on their regular surroundings, their comfort zones, and as has already been stated numerous times the argument ‘man vs bear’ is very much dependent on the man and on the bear. Jack the Ripper vs a koala bear? I’ll take the bear. My Mr Menno vs a grizzly? I’ll take the man. In general, stood in a forest confronted by a random bear and a random man? I would still assume the man was a safer bet than the bear.

The whole of biology is built on males and females forming partnerships. And for the most part, this works because for all the men who attack women, there are still millions and millions more who don’t. The rapists and the killers are aberrations, and even in prison these men are treated as aberrations by the other (male) prisoners. Most men are disgusted by men who attack women.

I think this is a sad and divisive argument that will have no winners.