Are women safer if they encounter a bear or a man in the woods?

[IcakethereforeIam]

This is an interesting thought experiment

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/relationships/article-13360727/man-bear-viral-question-domestic-violence-australia-dating.html

The DM nick enough off MN, so no apology for returning the favour.

Definitely team bear here.

There are links to articles regarding DV in Australia.

Yeah, because they're all so honest about their rapist tendencies. That's why the conviction rate is so high🙄

One of the times I was sexually assaulted was in public, in a bar. A drunk man felt emboldened to stick his hand up my skirt, try to pull my knickers aside and grope me. He was out with a group of mates, I'm not sure exactly how many, but maybe eight or nine.

How many do you think tried to stop him?

How many do you think cheered him on and laughed?

That's seven or eight men who definitely know someone capable of sexually assaulting a woman minding her own business in a public place. Do you imagine they think of their mate as a sex offender?

The same happened to me when I was 17, walking through a seating area to the bar. It was a nice bar which was filled up with office workers (on a Friday) and it was only about 9pm. The only reason his fingers didn’t penetrate me was the combo of control pants and 70 denier tights. I didn’t see which man did it but they were all late 20s/early 30s and wearing suits.

Facts

Women are perfectly entitled to avoid being anywhere near a bear.

But men? We are nuts if we say we want to avoid men.

This is going to be one of those situations where women try to use an (admittedly implausible) scenario/dilemma to show the ways they feel unsafe that men don't acknowledge. But said "conversation" will leave men feeling criticised/accused of being rapists. "Influencers" will stir. There will be backlash. Then the conversation will move onto the fact that men built bridges and cities goddamit. Why aren't women talking about all the great bridges??? And then women/girls will feel sad/angry at the fact they tried to ask for empathy and got anger and derision (and non-sequiters about bridges).
And rinse and repeat.

What strikes me about it though is that it’s funny. I can see that men might be offended and think they’re all being tarred as monsters - though as ever it’s actually about likelihoods and the reasons women fear men. And there are lots of interesting reasons why even though a bear is probably more dangerous, it might be preferable- like the fact that you can assess the danger quickly and not feel social pressure.

But it’s also just a funny discussion and image that to me not only highlights women’s fears, but is typical of the kind of discussions we have about the danger from men. I bet it arose out of a jokey chat between women. A lot of men don’t like that. That women talk about this issue and understand it. They want women to think men are great with the odd vanishingly rare exception.

When my teen DD goes out with friends to the park or town, we joke about looking out for dodgy men and always avoiding any man who acts suspiciously or inappropriately - it’s banter that allows me always to remind her and her to take it on board without being too scared. It’s the old “women are scared men will kill them, men are scared women will laugh at them” rolled up into one. The laughing is part of the bonding and mutual checking-in between women about those dangers.

@Icemachine there has been anonymous research done about men’s attitude to consent. It was shocking. Really shocking. A huge proportion are only held in check by fear of being found out.

There have been several cases where a passing man has joined in with a rapist- one in a hotel was memorable- and the terribly sad case of a girl abused then murdered by her brother, whose corpse was then violated by the first man to find her.

You really can’t say you don’t know a rapist, unless you don’t leave the house.

I thought it wasn't a real question? As in its simply a way to highlight the problem of male violence against women and girls? In a way that men can grasp simply?

The answer is take a gun and don't care.

I walk alone in the woods quite often with my (very not scary) dog. I see lots of men there running/cycling/walking their own dogs. I'd be way more frightened if I came across a bear!

You're right, it's a thought experiment. But men have come over all offended and NAMALT, as per usual.

(The bears were unavailable for comment.)

I was called a whore a few days ago by a stranger (man) on the internet because I said men should stop policing what women wear to the gym. I don’t think the bear would say that to me.

Team bear.

Bears response:

Well quite. There seems to be a bit of an odd attitude here that it's somehow downplaying male violence to admit that anything might be more dangerous than a man. Most of us are around men every day and, most of the time, nothing happens. Of course it's terrible and traumatising when something does happen but most women manage to go out in public around men regardless. A random man in a wood is probably less likely to be a rapist than a random bear in a wood is likely to be the sort of bear who might decide to maul you. We can admit that and it doesn't mean we're saying male violence isn't real and awful and terrifying.

Speak for yourself.
I'd much rather pass by a man in the woods than by a bear.

My father, the one man in the world who is meant to protect me, sexually abused me from the age of 3. Trust me, that never leaves you and has shaped my view of men, a view that has only been solidified by reading the news and witnessing male behaviour with my own eyes. And yes I know, not all men, but far, far too many, but by the same token, not all bears will attack you, most people who run into a bear, don’t get killed. Meanwhile men literally get off on watching women being choked and crying. I’ll take my chances with a bear, because frankly. I’d rather die in a bear attack, than at the hands of a man.

I remember reading about a young woman (maybe even a girl, I’m not sure) who was raped by a man after she sleepwalked out of her house in the night. The man who found her after she’d been raped decided to rape her too rather than help. Turns my stomach how repulsively depraved men can be.

So what do you suggest then in reality, those who don't feel safe around men?
Segregating men and women like some countries do?

It wouldn't be tolerated in other situations where someone was scared of a class of people, it shouldn't be in this case either.

What shouldn't be tolerated?? Women expressing their justified and explainable wariness of men? How do you intend to shut women up?

Are you saying that womens perfectly justified fears shouldnt be tolerated?

Stop being so offensive towards bears then 🙄

No, of course not, people can't help being fearful . Just shouldn't base society round your own fears/prejudice which is what segregation is.

Good answer well responded!
😂🙄
What's your solution then? Is it segregation or something else?

Oh and hate to point this out to you but bears aren't people

Yes, in some cases segregation, in areas where women are vulnerable, we need safe guarding because women’s safety matters more than mens feelings. We could also ban abusive porn and, here’s a really radical one, men could behave better.