Thread 2: A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet

[VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia]

At fewer than 20 posts left, time for part two.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057460-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet

Site Stuff thread that tipped off MNHQ: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5057903-mumsnet-corpus

Just browsing through my AI drawings relating to you. Not tempted by any of these?

Figure this one out Aston Unis AI!

Bugger clicked wrong cake image

On a t-shirt? Nah!

As a cake? 😊

Yeah him/her. Cutest one of all. Although all very cute him/her appeals to me. I can see that on a tote. Maybe matchy matchy tote and t would be too much at the same time. When I get them I'll go to s and b board to ask. They'll know.

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 15:32

I'd never heard that song, or of him!

He was very big through the 70's and 80s. He died in 1995 -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37705569

Scroll down to see the statues...

I once met a young woman from the UK who had studied in Japan and her boyfriend had accompanied her. He picked up Japanese from mixing with her and her friends and, she said, he ended up speaking like a girl rather than a lad.

This male / female language stuff is fascinating!

Random article in the mail the other day about a ex Mormon influencer who said that Mormon women are taught to talk in a particular way to be deferential. She called it 'baby Fundy voice' and described it as higher pitched, quieter and more babyish. She says since leaving she no longer talks like that.

I used to read a fair bit of historical fiction and on one holiday picked up a novel by an author I"d never heard of, with initials rather than a first name. (Not unusual - J D Salinger, D H Lawrence). It wasn't a bodice ripper, the action involved a conflict and the main characters were all male.

After reading it I thought it was written very unusually for the work of a male author. In those days you couldn't google people, and printed sources of information on popular rather than literary authors were scarce. It was some years before I found out who wrote it - yup, it was a woman.

@RedToothBrush There is a lot of that kind of voice amongst women in Japan too.

It used to be a thing in England too, I can remember a couple of rather posh older women I knew with very gushy high-pitched little voices rather at odds with their confident and assertive personalities. Assertive in a 'darling could you possibly' way rather than 'hoppit or else' but you knew very well that hoppiting was advisable. The late Queen had a version of it.

Women of the same generation (born from ca 1920 on) who had been to university tended not to speak that way, which is interesting too - I wonder did their schools or their higher ed encourage the change.

I was thinking about deleted posts and threads and how Aston uni may well have information that the poster may assume is gone forever which led me to wonder if the bobblehat wearer is aware there may be copies of threads that bobblehat had got mnhq to remove in full. In a not to distant future we may end up in a class action lawsuit all on the same side! 😱

New merch coming on line all the time, already including sensible t-shirts and steampunk tote bags.

https://grimut-gerbils.teemill.com/

Dear @Boiledbeetle, Please explain. Who is/was Bobblehat? Why a class action?

A poster who wears a bobblehat in some very fetching photos, who has past history with mumsnet when it comes to taking them to court to get them to release information about a user and gets them to delete whole threads about themselves. Who i am not going to name.

The class action is because fur once us and bobblehat wearer would actually be on the same side of the argument in wanting Aston to delete the information they have!

Love the bag! That will be going in my basket!

So… came across a university of Edinburgh definition of transphobia: What is Transphobia? Transphobia is the hatred, fear, disbelief, or mistrust of trans and gender non-conforming people.

Slipping in ‘disbelief’ in there is quite interesting. Enables anyone who doesn’t believe that humans can change sex to be labelled as transphobic.

Is this ‘disbelief’ part of any other phobic definition?

Is this ‘disbelief’ part of any other phobic definition?

Fairies. According to my pal Tinkerbell, who is living her true authentic self.

This type of research ends up being used in presentations by trans lobby groups to "prove" they are under attack/ most vulnerable people group. Never mind that the research starts from a biased position and then works to evidence that position i..e not research.
Although its amusing, we have seen this type of nonsense used to bear us over the head, sometimes quite effectively..

I don't know which thread this first turned up on but transphobia is not where it's at so Aston and others should catch up. It's transmisia.

Transmisia (also called Transphobia) is prejudice plus power; anyone of any gender can have/exhibit gender-based prejudice, but in North America (and really worldwide), cisgender people have the institutional power, therefore Transmisia is a systemized discrimination or antagonism directed against transgender/nonbinary/genderqueer/agender persons. Transmisia and cissexism are rooted in a desire to maintain the gender binary (i.e. the categories of 'male' and 'female'), a social construction which seeks to assign gender based on a person's declared sex at birth. Transmisia, as well as the gender binary from which it extends, obscures the reality of the spectrum and fluidity of gender and marginalizes the identities and experiences of persons whose gender does not align with their birth-assigned sex and/or who do not align with either category of male or female.
Trans folks can be agents of transmisia as well (particularly when acting as representatives of cis-dominated systems, such as higher education) by perpetuating the notion of gender binary or "passing" superiority and using it to discriminate against other transgender people. For example, a trans woman at a company may refuse to hire a genderqueer person because their gender presentation might "confuse" customers, or a trans male administrator at a traditionally women's college may deny the application of a non-passing trans woman for not "transitioning enough."

https://simmons.libguides.com/anti-oppression/anti-transmisia 

Disbelief = wrong think.

You might not be able to stop disbelief because you can use your eyes.

This is authoritarian nonsense.

Peace = war level authoritarian nonsense.

There are those who are not genuine who sign up to post transphobic stuff for the screen shots.
While they are taken down if reported on MN, I've seen the trophy screen shots appear elsewhere as a gotcha proof of MN transphobia,

My follow-up to the above post is as I posted elsewhere. The 2nd paragraph is in line with previous FWR discussions that at some point the NBs and parts of the trans umbrella that celebrate binaries will have a major schism.

The 3rd paragraph of the transmisia item is an updated version of the final paragraph here that's been linked on FWR several times (sorry, can't find the links) about 'gatekeeping standards'.

This too, from the Gay Liberation Front journal - Come Together - issue 11: Lesbians Come Together. It's from a piece by the GLF Transvestite, Transsexual and Drag Queen group, originally published in 1972:

A more central question is how to relate to other women. When we talk about our hopes and fantasies, it becomes apparent that what we want above all is to be accepted as women, primarily by other women. But will we achieve this by looking for ways in which we share experience with regular women or by developing a unique transvestite consciousness?

Sometimes the second approach seems real militant and proud, at other times it seems a cop-out, accepting the prejudiced view that we're not women, that we're some freaky third sex (or fourth or fifth?). Possibly we can find some light by considering the situation of black women and gay women, who develop black pride and gay pride, but still explore their feelings as women. Think how much more inspiring and beautiful the women's revolution will be when it joyously includes all women. Think of a Holloway demo with transvestite, transsexual and drag-queen women, gay women and heterosexual women, black, yellow, brown and white women, working women, housewives and career women. Certainly, whatever course we take as transvestites, transsexuals and drag queens, we must first destroy the trap wherein regular women set up standards by which they accept or reject us .

archive.org/details/cometogetheryear00walt/page/8/mode/2up

Unfortunately, work means that I cannot sit here and do this all day, however much I would like to. Just about to add text tote bags.

If anyone wants a) a steampunk t-shirt or b) has a request just say. Am hoping to get teal Grimut Gerbils up over the weekend.

Love the gerbil t-shirt. If I'm not buying it's because I'm waiting to see what else is going to pop up.

Thank you!