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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Thread 2: A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet

1000 replies

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 22/04/2024 23:22

At fewer than 20 posts left, time for part two.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057460-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet

Site Stuff thread that tipped off MNHQ: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5057903-mumsnet-corpus

A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet | Mumsnet

^By Aston Institute for Forensic Linguistics^ ^It has been suggested that the forum-style parenting website Mumsnet is a hub for ‘gender-critical’...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057460-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet

OP posts:
Thread gallery
111
SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 18:45

AlisonDonut · 25/04/2024 17:33

God i hated doing my bibliographies at the end of every fucking essay.

Well done @SoupDragonsFriend I am very impressed.

I know what you mean. It's a lot less problematic when you have already got a rough list and then can input most of the text into an online citation generator thingy and it does it for you. It also helps that I'm not stressing about 100% accuracy and it's not being graded for anything!

Having said that, I've noticed that Bagpuss has flagged himself up again. The date's in the wrong place (Harvard, I think). Should read 'Postgate, O. The Big Book of Bagpuss. HarperCollins Children’s Books, 2007.' to be consistent with the others. Still, adding a few more mentions of Bagpuss to the next scraped dataset will be no bad thing. 😀

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 18:47

OMG!!!

https://x.com/Grimutgerbils?s=09

Thread 2: A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet
IwantToRetire · 25/04/2024 18:52

IwantToRetire · 25/04/2024 18:41

I can log in and see results for transphobia, so IP address? But odd

If it is IP address how would they have decided to block it.

I'm not on twitter, but do post not very often on facebook.

I'm actually not bothered as I pay little attention to twitter, but lets say I did want to do research and see what was being said across platforms on the internet, I couldn't do it (well using their services).

How odd.

Well my ip address is not on any of the blocked web site lists

But on the other had not sure I want to have any contact with the group who have blocked me so probably wont bother to follow up.

Although interesting prospect that if someone reported all FWRers IP addresses would we all become virtual non entities - or even existing off the (virtual) grid?

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 18:58

SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 18:45

I know what you mean. It's a lot less problematic when you have already got a rough list and then can input most of the text into an online citation generator thingy and it does it for you. It also helps that I'm not stressing about 100% accuracy and it's not being graded for anything!

Having said that, I've noticed that Bagpuss has flagged himself up again. The date's in the wrong place (Harvard, I think). Should read 'Postgate, O. The Big Book of Bagpuss. HarperCollins Children’s Books, 2007.' to be consistent with the others. Still, adding a few more mentions of Bagpuss to the next scraped dataset will be no bad thing. 😀

Bagpuss ? Did i hear that right? Bagpuss? Is that what you said? As in the children's programme Bapuss? Or is there a different Bagpuss I may be unaware of? Is there maybe a bagpuss farm somewhere where they just breed lots of Bagpuss clones?

If so I'd like to order two Bagpuss please.

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 19:05

Tweet spotted and posted d on the site stuff thread

https://twitter.com/AudreySuffolk/status/1783499260484260352?s=19

Thread 2: A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet
SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:07

From MN Corpus, page 25: 'Audrey Ludwig (a solicitor who contributes to the Legal Feminist blog with Naomi Cunningham et al) has now tweeted about this [the MN Corpus] thread. Her tweet has been picked up by Sarah Philmore, and someone has tagged Jo Phoenix. Plenty of others also chipping in to comment.'

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5057903-mumsnet-corpus?page=25&reply=134806372
I don't want this to turn into a TAAT on here, just wanted to signpost to it for anyone taking a rest from tshirts, labrats, gerbils, blocked accounts and the like.

WarriorNonVerbalHateCrime · 25/04/2024 19:08

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 18:47

Whilst I love this, following this Twitter could help link people to this thread 😞

ifIwerenotanandroid · 25/04/2024 19:12

SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 17:08

I needed a break from my work. (Love the gerbil t-shirts by the way.)

Never let it be said that FWR is anything but diligent when it comes to properly citing references. I have been keeping a note of relevant items on this thread so far (just thread #2) because I thought Aston might be finding the bibliographic side of the discussion a bit much when they come to unravel what the hell this spectacularly wide-ranging dialogue is all about. I know that referencing can be daunting.

I have been using MLA9 but I may have slipped up sometimes and used Harvard by accident. Also there may have been other errors and omissions. This is a draft.

I'm quite excited because my new thing learnt today has been to learn how to cite X messages in MLA9 thanks to Barry Wall's indirect contribution (see below): a new skill I may never need to use again.

Bibliography

Barry Wall [@HeadWarriorTWM] “Gender Addled Grievance Gerbil.” X, 25 April 2024, 16:37, twitter.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1764993800043176316

"BBC - Radio 1 - Keeping It Peel.” Www.bbc.co.uk, www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/johnpeel/.

Blau, Rosie. “What Is the Opium of the People?” The Economist, 5 Jan. 2015, www.economist.com/1843/2015/01/05/what-is-the-opium-of-the-people.

Conan, Arthur, and Sidney Paget. The Original Illustrated Sherlock Holmes : 37 Short Stories plus a Complete Novel, Comprising the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, the Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, the Return of Sherlock Holmes, and the Hound of the Baskervilles. Castle Books, 2011.

Cooper, Jilly. Polo. London, Corgi, 2003.

Cooper, Jilly. Rivals. London, Corgi, 2007.

David, Croft. Up Pompeii: “Vestal Virgins.” Series 1 Episode 1, BBC, 1 Sept. 1969.

DC. “Wonder Woman.” DC, 23 Feb. 2012, www.dc.com/characters/wonder-woman.

Foucault, Michel. The Archaeology of Knowledge and the Discourse on Language. Pantheon Books, 1972.

Hellmann, Nicole. “The Evolution of Mickey Mouse | the Walt Disney Family Museum.” Www.waltdisney.org, 3 Feb. 2020, www.waltdisney.org/blog/evolution-mickey-mouse.

John Finnemore. “Cabin Pressure - Series 01.” I, 2008, archive.org/details/cabinpressures01e05edinburgh. Accessed 25 Apr. 2024.

Lear, Edward, and L Leslie Brooke. The Jumblies. The Echo Library, 2012.

Lovell, Mary S. The Mitford Girls : The Biography of an Extraordinary Family. Abacus, 2008.

Marquis, Don. Archy and Mehitabel. Anchor, 2012.

Orwell, George. Nineteen Eighty-Four. 1949. Penguin Books, 2000.

Postgate, O. (2007). The Big Book of Bagpuss. HarperCollins Children’s Books.

"Rabbit of Caerbannog - the Goon Show Depository.” Www.thegoonshow.co.uk, www.thegoonshow.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Rabbit_of_Caerbannog. Accessed 25 Apr. 2024.

"UV Coloration in Flowers.” Wikipedia, 19 Feb. 2024, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_coloration_in_flowers.

Wilde, Oscar, and Michael Patrick Gillespie. The Importance of Being Earnest: Authoritative Text, Backgrounds, Criticism. W. W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2023.

Excellent! Have a PhD.👏🎓Congratulations, Dr SoupDragonsFriend.

JanesLittleGirl · 25/04/2024 19:12

Although interesting prospect that if someone reported all FWRers IP addresses would we all become virtual non entities - or even existing off the (virtual) grid?

Hmmm. That could bugger up the hotel that I stay in during the week and the train company that I use to get to and from London.

WarriorNonVerbalHateCrime · 25/04/2024 19:13

Driving to work I heard Lauren Lavern citing some linguistic research into songs.

Apparently they're written with increasingly fewer words and more self centred.

Which seems apt given your pronouns and which pretty flag you're linked to are all increasing numbers of people seem to care about!

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 19:15

WarriorNonVerbalHateCrime · 25/04/2024 19:08

Whilst I love this, following this Twitter could help link people to this thread 😞

True! My Twitter and mumsnet are linked though anyway by my name!

SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:30

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 18:58

Bagpuss ? Did i hear that right? Bagpuss? Is that what you said? As in the children's programme Bapuss? Or is there a different Bagpuss I may be unaware of? Is there maybe a bagpuss farm somewhere where they just breed lots of Bagpuss clones?

If so I'd like to order two Bagpuss please.

That is the very same Bagpuss. I have a slight affinity given that my name is linked to another Smallfilms production.

Postgate and Firmin made The Clangers, Ivor the Engine, Noggin the Nog and more, as well as Bagpuss. I really wish people made programmes like that now. I think there was only ever one Bagpuss, the animal, not Bagpuss the programmes, but the thought of Bagpuss having siblings or offspring is a lovely idea.

Is the plural Bagpusses, or Bagpi, or just Bagpuss? Bagpi sounds sort of clumsy, I don't think it can be a Latin second declension nominative plural if it's -uss rather than -us. Given that I failed my Latin O level abysmally over half a century ago, it's understandable that I'm floundering - better left alone methinks.

DrSoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:33

@ifIwerenotanandroid, thank you. Yes, I will. That was surprisingly easy. 😀

WarriorNonVerbalHateCrime · 25/04/2024 19:34

True! My Twitter and mumsnet are linked though anyway by my name!

I did think that.... I'm so careful after being outed on mn once. It is a concern

Chersfrozenface · 25/04/2024 19:36

The plural of puss is pusses, so the plural of Bagpuss is Bagpusses.

DrSoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:42

Chersfrozenface · 25/04/2024 19:36

The plural of puss is pusses, so the plural of Bagpuss is Bagpusses.

Edited

Solved! Bagpusses it is then. Thank you.

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 19:47

DrSoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:42

Solved! Bagpusses it is then. Thank you.

Congratulations on your new mumsnet phd, just noticed you'd slipped the Dr into your title!

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/04/2024 19:49

IwantToRetire · 25/04/2024 18:52

Well my ip address is not on any of the blocked web site lists

But on the other had not sure I want to have any contact with the group who have blocked me so probably wont bother to follow up.

Although interesting prospect that if someone reported all FWRers IP addresses would we all become virtual non entities - or even existing off the (virtual) grid?

How would they know the IP addresses of FWR posters?

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 19:49

WarriorNonVerbalHateCrime · 25/04/2024 19:34

True! My Twitter and mumsnet are linked though anyway by my name!

I did think that.... I'm so careful after being outed on mn once. It is a concern

Give it a few more hours, do a couple of name changes, create a sock Twitter account, wait a few more hours to see if it gains more followers then follow it with your sock account!

DrSoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:53

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 19:47

Congratulations on your new mumsnet phd, just noticed you'd slipped the Dr into your title!

😊Highly embarrassed. Thank you. I'm still a bit puzzled as to how one can get a PhD having only submitted a bibliography and no thesis. I'm mighty relieved to have skipped the viva too but I'm not going to question anything. Please keep quiet about it, ok?

IwantToRetire · 25/04/2024 20:19

How would they know the IP addresses of FWR posters?

I have no idea, and thought one of the more Techie vipers might explain.

In term of my use of the internet FWR is the must public place, so cant think where else they would get it.

Anyway its all speculation as I haven't contacted them, and if it isn't my IP address cant imagine why anyone would bother to report me.

It was more idle curiousity.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/04/2024 20:23

IwantToRetire · 25/04/2024 20:19

How would they know the IP addresses of FWR posters?

I have no idea, and thought one of the more Techie vipers might explain.

In term of my use of the internet FWR is the must public place, so cant think where else they would get it.

Anyway its all speculation as I haven't contacted them, and if it isn't my IP address cant imagine why anyone would bother to report me.

It was more idle curiousity.

Unless we get another Emma Healey, the link between your IP address and your MN username is secret.

OP posts:
dunBle · 25/04/2024 20:31

SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 19:30

That is the very same Bagpuss. I have a slight affinity given that my name is linked to another Smallfilms production.

Postgate and Firmin made The Clangers, Ivor the Engine, Noggin the Nog and more, as well as Bagpuss. I really wish people made programmes like that now. I think there was only ever one Bagpuss, the animal, not Bagpuss the programmes, but the thought of Bagpuss having siblings or offspring is a lovely idea.

Is the plural Bagpusses, or Bagpi, or just Bagpuss? Bagpi sounds sort of clumsy, I don't think it can be a Latin second declension nominative plural if it's -uss rather than -us. Given that I failed my Latin O level abysmally over half a century ago, it's understandable that I'm floundering - better left alone methinks.

I assume you've been to the Smallfilms exhibition at The Beaney in Canterbury?
https://canterburymuseums.co.uk/collections/the-beaney/the-smallfilms-gallery/

The Smallfilms Gallery - Canterbury Museums & Galleries

A temporary gallery space celebrating work by the Award winning Smallfilms duo - Peter Firmin and Oliver Postgate. See old favourites such as Bagpuss, Clangers, Noggin the Nog and Ivor the Engine alongside brand new items on display.

https://canterburymuseums.co.uk/collections/the-beaney/the-smallfilms-gallery

IwantToRetire · 25/04/2024 20:33

From MN Corpus,

Sorry if this sounds pompous but think it is a shame that the thread on site stuff which I assumed would be about mumsnet HQ answering questions, passing on updates, seems to also be general discussion.

Which means information which is relevant to those on this thread about the actual issue are not being shared and this thread no longer functions as a means of keeping each other up to dates on issues raised and the impact on us as part of the issue.

Even if just in terms of time its hard enough keeping up with original threads, but is usually worth it, to be made aware of what has been happening. But unless you have all day who has time to jump between what is being said, here and what is being said.

Would somebody care to do a synopsis of the other thread, ie not pasting in whole posts, but the issues that have come up on that thread, that aren't about "site stuff" but are part of this developing discussion.

ArsetonUniversity · 25/04/2024 20:35

In fairness I think the other thread has now become about actual discussion and this thread is all about the Gerbils. I say this with no rancour, both extremely important.

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