Radio 4 more or less - Cass

[WarriorN]

Focussing on the misinformation about Cass 'ignoring 100 studies.'

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hry4wj?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Thanks NoBinturongsHereMate and AnnaMagnani

in which case, I guess the TRAs complaining haven't found anything in them to even remotely back up their assertions.

It was #OperationLetThemSpeak again. There'd be an accurate scientific analysis / commentary on what had happened to children followed by an adult transwoman talking about themselves and their demands. Presumably the BBC's idea of balance but it rather backfired

It's always an excellent programme. So delighted they've finally covered a trans issue. They've been silent for too long.

There’s always been two versions of MoL - a 30 minute version that appears in a series on R4 several times a year, and an ongoing 9 minute version that’s on the World Service every week.

I’d absolutely trust Tim Harford. They’ve dealt with some quite thorny topics before so I don’t see that they’d suddenly throw statistical methodology to the wind on this one. They know it would mean they were never trusted again, because a lot of people turn to MoL to find out what’s really going on behind the headlines.

Another here pleased to see Tim Harford looking at this at last.

As an aside I haven't heard the Economist tackling this yet and that's probably the only outlet I'd trust as much. Might be wrong but it hasn't hit their daily podcast. I'm hoping they might be digesting it a bit first to tie in with the international picture. If they failed to follow it up I'd be surprised.

LogicLoverLlama · Yesterday 19:19

Want to know the trans response?

Goodness! Unsurprisingly, it's 100° mince on toast and absolute lies.

It wasn't Tim Harford looking at this it was the producer Kate Lamble:

https://twitter.com/katelamble/status/1781713012618834341

I don't trust Tim Harford on this because he's a man who earns his living by maintaining a media profile as being rational and progressive, and a good person. He's been asked to look at the trans issues countless times over the years, and has consistently swerved it. He might be a secret TERF, equally he might be an Adam Rutherford type.

Thanks for the explanation @SidewaysOtter.

Interesting that it was the producer who did it.

The 9 min ones on World Service are often different presenters, not Tim Harford. I don't know that it's significant that Kate Lamble did it.

I've been disappointed in how they've swerved this for so long but delighted they've finally tackled it. I guess the rigour of the Cass Review and the craziness of the TRA response made it easy for them to engage with it in a very calm factual way.

It's a very clear, very factual, very direct show that looks straight on at the accusations and chucks them right out.

I am staggered how allergic the trans community is to evidence snd statistics, with a sympathetic mind I assume it is just too much to deal with when they all have so many other mental health comorbidities, to look at things with an open mind, without any sunk cost fallacy, and conformation bias - or frankly their literal identity BEING trans.

Thats very difficult to get across on reddit, I tried but they just down vote anyone with a contrary view. Biggest echo chamber ever

Reddit continues to be a source of horror to me, that thread especially. Some people are pushing back but not most

Also amazing that trans people hate the BBC, The Guardian etc

I am staggered how allergic the trans community is to evidence snd statistics, with a sympathetic mind I assume it is just too much to deal with when they all have so many other mental health comorbidities

It can also be more a political/ego thing - "I say I am a woman, nothing can prove otherwise because that would be denying me, a trans person. Stats are biased because people want trans people dead, using language is biased because they don't use it to mean what I want it to mean."

It’s interesting that it took MoL to do this and not the BBcs own Verify unit, or it’s Health team, or even the News team

Yes indeed.

Does Verify do requests?

No idea but that is interesting.

It's almost as if someone said "we have to tick the fact checking box, what's the most discrete way to do this?"

And said, throw it to the more or less 9 min podcast 🤔

MoL has covered this before by doing an episode on trans women in sport a couple of years ago where they had Ross Tucker explaining things pretty clearly. Also a 9min episode not hosted by Tim but as others have said this isn't unusual.

More or Less: Behind the Stats (Testosterone and sport)

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0bnmpld

No idea, but one would think miss chirpy what’s her face want to would be all over a high profile story where there have been accusations of the report being wrong….

MoL also covered the claim that intersex is as common as having red hair. But that was years ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000222z

Turns out they do, everyone drop them a line - https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5059774-request-that-bbc-verify-look-into-misinformation-claims-around-the-cass-review-30-second-online-form

hmmm it doesn't seem available on iplayer... at least not in 'forrin'

Thanks @LogicLoverLlama

thanks Justin!

x.com/justinonweb/status/1782340555000684873?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Kate Lamble, who produced and presented the BBC More or Less episode on the Cass report has been made redundant by the BBC.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/10/bbc-journalism-grenfell-redundant-kate-lamble

Dedicated work on the Grenfell fire and a great job producing More or Less for Radio 4 and the World Service including a fair analysis of the Cass report stats obviously don’t make you valuable to the BBC.

“Kate Lamble is not a household name like Emily Maitlis or Andrew Marr, other former BBC journalists. Having risen through the ranks of specialist science journalism, Lamble has never presented a primetime show. For the past seven years, Lamble has covered the Grenfell Tower inquiry – listening to hours and hours of often heartbreaking testimony – until last week, two days after the inquiry published its final report, when she announced she had been made redundant and would be leaving the BBC.
Among more than 1,000 comments on her post on X, seen 1.5m times, was one from the survivors’ group Grenfell United. “It saddens us to see this huge error by the BBC, Kate has supported the Grenfell cause from the beginning and made our story more accessible to the public.” Lamble is understood to have decided to be “totally open” about her involuntary departure as she worried these people would think she had chosen to walk away.”

‘The priority in news has been to try to follow audiences from broadcast TV, down 11% over five years, to digital. In essence, this has meant fewer investigative deep-dives in audio and TV, and more work online from BBC Verify. So more people to explain the line taken by that day’s news bulletins, more talking heads on a sofa – and fewer to spend years gaining the trust of traumatised people and understanding the technical details of cladding and local governance. A joke among her colleagues was that Lamble was the kind of journalist who could wear a T-shirt printed with: “I think you’ll find it’s more complicated than that.”’

Clearly Kate Lamble is someone who researched thoughtfully and deeply. Apparently that’s not what the BBC wants now.

It’s shocking. I am so angry.