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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Spectator article on author feeling horny after watching a lecture by a female academic at Cambridge University and then hiring a prostitute

114 replies

PlumDog · 18/04/2024 13:03

See below (it's vile):
https://twitter.com/itaintwhywhywhy/status/1780888612780835302

"Lloyd Evans started writing for the The Spectator in 1998 and later became its poetry editor and theatre critic. In 2005 he co-authored a play, ‘Who’s The Daddy?’ based on sexual shenanigans at the Spectator."

https://twitter.com/itaintwhywhywhy/status/1780888612780835302

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 19/04/2024 13:54

The Mail article is interesting as it points out he has published articles like this in the Spectator before and nobody appeared to mind, so he has been shocked by the backlash.

Maybe times are changing!

bombastix · 19/04/2024 13:56

He's certainly gone on about his sex life but with the consent of others. That he did not do here; so maybe this is the difference

candycane222 · 19/04/2024 14:09

Great post @Cauliflowery

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/04/2024 14:22

Waitingfordoggo · 19/04/2024 12:51

you have to take your clothes off, in a brand new building

No Lloyd. You really really don’t have to do anything of the sort. Unless of course you’re a trafficked woman whose life depends on it.

Quite. There's only one class of person who has to take their clothes off there. And it's not pervert men. They could go home and have a hot cocoa and a wank.

Cauliflowery · 19/04/2024 14:23

1plus1equalswindow · 19/04/2024 12:48

I'm not sure it is socialised (entirely). I really think it's down to biology. Men's sex drive needs to be tamed/redirected/distracted somehow. Or they end up as pervs/incels.

I just don't think it's that mysterious.

There are loads of things humans enjoy whilst putting out of their mind the harm caused (milk, fur, fast fashion, porn, cocaine, driving...).

It depends how rigorously you face up to your actions and how conscious you are of your personal values when you act.

Men who are misogynist towards women show with their actions that women are lesser humans to them. That is a value they hold. Some of these men probably wouldn't think like that if society and culture didn't support their view. Just like far fewer people would buy fast fashion if the sweatshops were right in front of them.

HelloWorld68 · 19/04/2024 14:32

The more I read about him the more I'm beginning to hate him. I don't even know him but he's despicable!

Only two kinds of people on this planet according to him - men and people who aren't men.

Tells you all you need to know about the guy!

DeanElderberry · 19/04/2024 14:53

Those comments in the Daily Mail are interesting. Men realising just what women experience from some men. Maybe Creepoid Lloyd has done us a favour by perving quite so publicly.

The poor lecturer though - working hard to put together a thoughtful presentation only to find one of the audience reacted like that.

PullUpTheDrawbridge · 19/04/2024 15:20

God it's disgusting. Urgh. I was just saying to my DH how awful my working life was before I worked from home. I once seriously contemplated throwing myself down the stairs to avoid going on a work trip my sleazy MD, I was literally petrified. Why the fuck do we have to put up with this shit?????

ErrolTheDragon · 19/04/2024 15:24

Sad loser... doesn't he realise people - men and women - criticising him are most likely not lurking actionless in basements, rather they'll be in proper relationships within which they can enjoy free fully consensual sex.

crowgift · 19/04/2024 18:47

Would be good if the local police force (Cambridgeshire?) would investigate if there is a trafficked woman who needs help.

KitKatChunki · 19/04/2024 19:31

I hope the women he mentions can bring some legal action here. I'd say the lecturer is being touted as titillation for men purely because of her gender and posited as such in a national magazine. The woman he slept with has had her private life splashed without consent for him to make money. This horrid excuse for a man and his self-righteousness has been shown up now, hopefully the only job that would touch him with a barge pole is now is a slot on GB News.

Screamingabdabz · 19/04/2024 19:43

therealcookiemonster · 18/04/2024 19:15

this is one of the reasons why I wear hijab

ps I realise that men will still perv and also its their responsibility. but while men like this exist in society I choose to protect myself from their sordid gaze even though I think it's wrong that I have to. also would still wear it even if all men were angels because of the spiritual elements of wearing hijab .

I’ve never understood what is holy about hiding females under a veil and letting men freely crack on with their sexual rapaciousness. Hide men away if they can’t exercise self control and a higher mind.

therealcookiemonster · 19/04/2024 20:52

Screamingabdabz · 19/04/2024 19:43

I’ve never understood what is holy about hiding females under a veil and letting men freely crack on with their sexual rapaciousness. Hide men away if they can’t exercise self control and a higher mind.

I think if you actually read my post you will see that is not the point I am making. perhaps getting off your high horse will help you read better

Kittywittywoo · 21/04/2024 11:11

Why did he have to name her . It's like he's punishing her for something.

Kittywittywoo · 21/04/2024 11:13

Well what woman is going to sleep with him now ?

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 13:13

dimllaishebiaith · 18/04/2024 21:31

Of course the notion of just not having sex at all, paid or desperate fans, whilst they were on tour didn't cross the poor little mens brains...

This unrealistic attitude is a big problem I have with feminism, we are totally ignoring the elephant in the room here, the fact that this is biologically driven male behaviour and no amount of socialisation is going to change that. Demanding or expecting men to behave is not going to work, not ever. There will always be huge numbers of men who will use their male strength and societal power to satisfy these biological urges. We need to accept this and work on the protection of women from the worst excesses of men by accepting that many of them really are driven by the brain in their trousers and not the one that sits on their shoulders. We need to accept that these urges become so strong that they will do anything to satisfy them, however dreadful that is. So much perversion and violence is driven by these mens rage at not being able to do what they want to any woman they want, whenever they want. Religions stifling repression of sexuality and the repression of women as a sex class in society has a hell of a lot to answer for.
This is a can of worms that we need to open in order to make progress. Instead of doing this, we are going in the opposite direction and this direction is being forced partly by modern intersectional feminisms insistence that the differences between the sexes is a social construct, it’s not, and many of us knew that taking feminism in this direction would have dire consequences for women, as it’s not based in reality and was bound to fail. This is not to excuse the behaviour but to recognise that it is driven by male biology, if we refuse to see that then we continue to expose females to dangers that could be avoided.
Before anyone starts with the “ not all men “ trope, I am well aware of that, but many more of them than we would like to admit. I used to work on the newspaper cuttings table of a well known women’s library, I had to stop as the realisation that this was so common that it warranted only a paragraph, three or four pages in, shook me to the core. The number of offences floored me, not a week went by without reports of rape or child sex offences in many different newspapers from around the UK. I am myself a survivor of child sexual abuse, I had thought that it was rare, it’s not, it’s depressingly very, very common and it’s now being ignored or justified more than ever, with safeguarding being thrown out of the window by many women as well as men. So depressing.

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 13:22

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 13:13

This unrealistic attitude is a big problem I have with feminism, we are totally ignoring the elephant in the room here, the fact that this is biologically driven male behaviour and no amount of socialisation is going to change that. Demanding or expecting men to behave is not going to work, not ever. There will always be huge numbers of men who will use their male strength and societal power to satisfy these biological urges. We need to accept this and work on the protection of women from the worst excesses of men by accepting that many of them really are driven by the brain in their trousers and not the one that sits on their shoulders. We need to accept that these urges become so strong that they will do anything to satisfy them, however dreadful that is. So much perversion and violence is driven by these mens rage at not being able to do what they want to any woman they want, whenever they want. Religions stifling repression of sexuality and the repression of women as a sex class in society has a hell of a lot to answer for.
This is a can of worms that we need to open in order to make progress. Instead of doing this, we are going in the opposite direction and this direction is being forced partly by modern intersectional feminisms insistence that the differences between the sexes is a social construct, it’s not, and many of us knew that taking feminism in this direction would have dire consequences for women, as it’s not based in reality and was bound to fail. This is not to excuse the behaviour but to recognise that it is driven by male biology, if we refuse to see that then we continue to expose females to dangers that could be avoided.
Before anyone starts with the “ not all men “ trope, I am well aware of that, but many more of them than we would like to admit. I used to work on the newspaper cuttings table of a well known women’s library, I had to stop as the realisation that this was so common that it warranted only a paragraph, three or four pages in, shook me to the core. The number of offences floored me, not a week went by without reports of rape or child sex offences in many different newspapers from around the UK. I am myself a survivor of child sexual abuse, I had thought that it was rare, it’s not, it’s depressingly very, very common and it’s now being ignored or justified more than ever, with safeguarding being thrown out of the window by many women as well as men. So depressing.

I tried to edit this but it wouldn’t allow it. I know many men, including in my own family who have protected women from abuse and exploitation, sometimes at great personal cost to themselves. I love these men fiercely and am so grateful to them for their integrity and courage, and just for clarity, most men are decent human beings, we need to hold on to that.

dimllaishebiaith · 21/04/2024 13:26

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 13:13

This unrealistic attitude is a big problem I have with feminism, we are totally ignoring the elephant in the room here, the fact that this is biologically driven male behaviour and no amount of socialisation is going to change that. Demanding or expecting men to behave is not going to work, not ever. There will always be huge numbers of men who will use their male strength and societal power to satisfy these biological urges. We need to accept this and work on the protection of women from the worst excesses of men by accepting that many of them really are driven by the brain in their trousers and not the one that sits on their shoulders. We need to accept that these urges become so strong that they will do anything to satisfy them, however dreadful that is. So much perversion and violence is driven by these mens rage at not being able to do what they want to any woman they want, whenever they want. Religions stifling repression of sexuality and the repression of women as a sex class in society has a hell of a lot to answer for.
This is a can of worms that we need to open in order to make progress. Instead of doing this, we are going in the opposite direction and this direction is being forced partly by modern intersectional feminisms insistence that the differences between the sexes is a social construct, it’s not, and many of us knew that taking feminism in this direction would have dire consequences for women, as it’s not based in reality and was bound to fail. This is not to excuse the behaviour but to recognise that it is driven by male biology, if we refuse to see that then we continue to expose females to dangers that could be avoided.
Before anyone starts with the “ not all men “ trope, I am well aware of that, but many more of them than we would like to admit. I used to work on the newspaper cuttings table of a well known women’s library, I had to stop as the realisation that this was so common that it warranted only a paragraph, three or four pages in, shook me to the core. The number of offences floored me, not a week went by without reports of rape or child sex offences in many different newspapers from around the UK. I am myself a survivor of child sexual abuse, I had thought that it was rare, it’s not, it’s depressingly very, very common and it’s now being ignored or justified more than ever, with safeguarding being thrown out of the window by many women as well as men. So depressing.

Thank you for making my sarcastic flippant comment the "big problem you have with feminism"

Awesome, I really needed to know I was in fact the problem with feminism 🤣🤣

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 13:37

dimllaishebiaith · 21/04/2024 13:26

Thank you for making my sarcastic flippant comment the "big problem you have with feminism"

Awesome, I really needed to know I was in fact the problem with feminism 🤣🤣

sorry, I actually didn’t realise you were being sarcastic, there are women on here saying things like that in all seriousness believe it or not. It’s a real problem that I see with feminism and it’s actually led us to where we are now, but thanks for not engaging with what I was actually talking about.

Hartley99 · 21/04/2024 13:37

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 18/04/2024 21:27

My lovely late husband worked in the music industry. He told me some band members hated the idea of exploiting the desperate fans and preferred prostitutes as the deal was more impersonal. He told me that when the tour bus left in the morning heartbroken girls would be weeping as they waved th3m off. The prostitutes would be long gone with no distress. I could understand the band's perspective.

I can see his point. I will probably get flamed for this, but you could make a case for prostitution to be available for young men (16-25). Boys that age are (quite literally) mad with testosterone and sexual frustration. I sometimes wonder if it would be a good thing to allow them to visit prostitutes. Obviously the women should be carefully screened for addiction, childhood abuse, PTSD and so on.

I’m not saying I like the idea. Prostitution isn’t “just a job.” It’s a hideously ugly thing, however you spin it. But so is the way young men treat young women. They’re so desperate to lose their virginity, get laid and impress their mates that they really don’t care who gets hurt in the process. Looking back, my teenage brothers and cousins did some terrible things - constantly cheating on their girlfriends, making disgusting jokes about girls they’d been with, etc. I never got over the shock of hearing them boast and laugh in the kitchen. Which is worse, a 17-year-old virgin visiting a 30-year-old escort, or pretending he wants a relationship with a girl his own age just so he can use her for sex?

Frankly, I long for the day when we have robot brothels and men can “pump and dump” a piece of silicone and metal instead.

Woman2023 · 21/04/2024 13:45

I will probably get flamed for this, but you could make a case for prostitution to be available for young men (16-25). Boys that age are (quite literally) mad with testosterone and sexual frustration. I sometimes wonder if it would be a good thing to allow them to visit prostitutes. Obviously the women should be carefully screened for addiction, childhood abuse, PTSD and so on.

Flamed? On a feminist website? For suggesting that women should be served up as sexual playthings for young men because young men are too mad with hormones to be able to negotiate relationships respectfully?
Ffs.🤦‍♀️

dimllaishebiaith · 21/04/2024 13:46

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 13:37

sorry, I actually didn’t realise you were being sarcastic, there are women on here saying things like that in all seriousness believe it or not. It’s a real problem that I see with feminism and it’s actually led us to where we are now, but thanks for not engaging with what I was actually talking about.

Just for the record I'm not a "modern intersectional feminist" I'm not really sure FWR is a hotbed of modern intersectional feminism tbh

If you want to complain about women throwing out safeguarding you might want to go to Reddit not MN, you are aiming this at literally the wrong people..

dimllaishebiaith · 21/04/2024 13:48

Woman2023 · 21/04/2024 13:45

I will probably get flamed for this, but you could make a case for prostitution to be available for young men (16-25). Boys that age are (quite literally) mad with testosterone and sexual frustration. I sometimes wonder if it would be a good thing to allow them to visit prostitutes. Obviously the women should be carefully screened for addiction, childhood abuse, PTSD and so on.

Flamed? On a feminist website? For suggesting that women should be served up as sexual playthings for young men because young men are too mad with hormones to be able to negotiate relationships respectfully?
Ffs.🤦‍♀️

It's utterly baffling how women are the ones who get called hormonal yet can apparently manage their hormones without being offered up men to shag whenever they can afford it, but men who are apparently far more logic and less hormonal than women cannot cope without prostitutes because of their hormones 🙄

PermanentTemporary · 21/04/2024 13:51

I don't think boys and men aged 16-25 are mad or that they will become so if not either given lesser men to shoot at in wars, or given prostituted women to poke their dicks into.

Teenagers and young adults have strong feelings which it's important they learn to handle, sure. For example, I was unbelievably broody and also sexually driven at that age. My mum gave me some sensible warnings about what an early pregnancy would mean for me, and I managed my own fertility successfully.

This author isn't a teenager. He tries to make his sex drive separate from him. It's part of him and he indulges it as much as possible and as abusively as possible. He doesn't have to do any of that.

Hartley99 · 21/04/2024 13:54

PullUpTheDrawbridge · 19/04/2024 15:20

God it's disgusting. Urgh. I was just saying to my DH how awful my working life was before I worked from home. I once seriously contemplated throwing myself down the stairs to avoid going on a work trip my sleazy MD, I was literally petrified. Why the fuck do we have to put up with this shit?????

For too long men have belittled and trivialised the abuse of women. And it’s STILL going on. In my life, I have known six women who were raped or sexually abused. Not one of them went to the police. Not one. I should think that’s pretty common. If you read that there were fifty rapes last year in your home town, you could confidently bet that for every one of those reported rapes, another ten went unreported. I have a nasty feeling that the sexual abuse of children (especially young girls) was absolutely rife in this country until very recently. I remember a friend telling me that her mum had numerous boyfriends when my friend was a young teen. Then she added bitterly (and this is seared into my memory) “I always had a new stepdad coming in to kiss me goodnight.” She actually stayed in touch with one of her mum’s old boyfriends because he was the only one who didn’t sexually abuse her.