Asked my Lib Dem candidate what a woman is

[Botheredbabybrain]

Not sure who to vote for. Lib Dem man posted some sensible stuff about an issue on the local fb group then tried to request me as a friend, I thought I’d gauge his response on this issue. Would be funny if it weren’t so fucking tragic.

None of that means sex isn't real, binary and immutable.

Anyway... I think the 'born in the wrong body' bit is what to focus on, OP. Afaik even the likes of mermaids and stonewall have tried to distance themselves from that damaging fiction. Doesn't official schools guidance specifically warn against that narrative?

My goodness the ‘wrong body’ line

It makes me want to cry.

The Lib Dems were so close to being the right party for me.

I thought tuition fees turnaround was bad enough

I wonder what the other parties would say to that message

I’ve asked them
so
you won’t need to wonder for long!

FFS! We've spent the last century arguing that male and female brains are not different, and that women can hold down a job - as an astronaut, CEO, nuclear physicist, army corporal, fire fighter, anything they want and now we're fighting that argument that our brains are diffeeent after all! 😡

Reverse thinking, I'm afraid. Anyone in a male body has a male brain by definition. Just cos there's natural variation in people doesn't stop making this true. Some girls like cars, some boys like dolls. No biggie.

Ask this guy whether women purposely identify into lower salaries.

@Botheredbabybrain It is.

I wouldn't get drawn into the nonsense.

"Can I just clarify - you would advocate for trans women in womens sport, women's prisons and to provide intimate care to vulnerable women?
I just want to be very clear on your stance'

£10 says he blocks & unfollows or whatever.

Our brains are different. A male brain isn't going to regulate pregnancy hormones now is it.

The extrapolation to who's better at what job on the other hand is simplistic - there's so much variation between individuals. And skills women are generally better at are often undervalued - like communication, team working, organising, managing etc.

You should have asked him what a man was while you were at it.

"Someone who spouts absolute bullshit confident in the knowledge he knows what he's talking about"

I asked the same question when local lib dems knocked on the door and asked whether I would be voting for them. The guy's face fell and he told me I wasn't the first person to ask that.

He told me they pride themselves on adopting the "compromise" position but was unable to elaborate in any way at all. Promised to get back to me but surprisingly has not.

Ah well, if a woman is someone who defines themselves as a woman, I'm afraid I have to define myself as someone who'd rather rip their own eyes out and call them lunch than vote for you. And I highly doubt I'm alone in that.
Is what I'd say.

they genuinely believed that male and female brains were different and trans people clearly had brains that were not 100% in accordance with their biological sex

So what?

Even ignoring what they think they mean by 'in accordance', why look for teeny subtle differences from average brain activity while ignoring the presence of a vagina or a penis?

If trans people just happened to be born with brains that aren't in accordance with their biological sex, like some people are born left handed, then you would expect a roughly equal distribution of male and female trans people of each age.

Instead we have a disproportionate number of middle aged men identifying as trans and hardly any middle aged women. (Does anyone have the numbers?).

We also have a situation where girls who identify as trans outnumber boys six to one. GIDs stopped recording the sex of their patients once they noticed girls outnumbered boys five to one, but the numbers were still rising.

This is pretty strong evidence that there's far more to it than being born this way. (Which is probably why TRAs are so keen to keep the numbers quiet.)

Assuming he is heterosexual “would you date a trans women?, if not, why?”

Also if men who identify as trans were just born in the wrong body, then why is their behaviour so different to women's behaviour when it comes to sex crimes?

Around 3% of women who are in prison are sex offenders.

Around 70% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders.

This is from the Ministry of Justice figures.

I think most people are too stupid to understand the philosophical issues around "what is a woman". I would ask LDs about whether they will return their huge donation from Ferring now that tha Cass review has shown no evidence of any benefit and actually a good deal of harm caused by PBs. Either they have evidence-based policies and get to take the moral highground, or they don't.

"I see .. but how do we know it's not a mental illness like body dysmorphia? That would be awful wouldn't it, if they weren't getting the mental health support they needed and instead were being directed towards life-changing surgery? Especially if they were twelve or thirteen, gosh it doesn't bear thinking about does it? "

(They answer with some bullshit)

"I see ... but how do we know it's not a sexual fetish? That would be awful, wouldn't it, if men with fetishes were going into women's safe spaces where they were vulnerable, either because of their life situation like in a refuge or because they were unclothed like in a swimming pool changing room? There does look to be quite a lot of crossover with kink on X, for example, doesn't there, adult babies and bdsm and so on? And that Aimee Challoner case was a bit worrying wasn't it?"

So just ask the usual questions/make the usual points but in a very polite and friendly tone. I think it's harder for them to do the equivalent of block and report if you're being super cheery.

Well done @Botheredbabybrain for asking he question. I am not surprised at the Lib Dem answer.

The reply from me would be "thank you, I will not vote for a person/party who supports that definition of a woman". It is the only language they understand as everything currently will be about getting a vote. If enough people do not give them their votes due to this issue the penny will eventually drop. They cannot ignore all potential votes.

I instinctively reject this notion but then again I'm no scientist. What if he's right? What if there is a biological element to being trans?

I think that even if there were a biological component to believing that you were born the wrong sex, it's still a belief. You're entitled to hold it and live it as long as you aren't encroaching on other people's rights and aren't trying to force other people to act or speak as if they hold the same belief,

In what way can your brain not be in accordance with your body?
Your brain is IN your body. It is part of your body. It is a brain in a male or female body and therefore a male or female brain by virtue of the body it is in. Surely?

If someone believes there is, in actuality, two different kinds of human brain in this way, then what is a "female brain"?
In what ways is it different to a 'male brain'?

If any differences exist, how would you 'live' these differences outside of culturally ascribed gender roles expression- which people are free to do anyway?

Is it just about personality qualities (do these come from the brain/biological?) that are are generalised/stereotyped eg nurturance, aggression etc?
What does that mean for females who are more aggressive than average, and males who are more nurturing? Are they not really male or female like others of their same sex?

And in that case, what would be the difference between a gentle, nurturing man with a 'male brain', and one with a 'female brain'? How would you know which one you are?

Does it mean instead that this is about a need for the body to physically represent this internal sense (opposite sex brain)?
Even though that can't ever really be done fully?
And if this was the case, what does this mean for all sorts of other people whose internal self image differs from their physical body? Who see themselves as obese, when not, or that they have limbs they shouldn't have? Which do we see as most true generally? The self image or the bodily reality?

And then why do so many who feel this concept is true, and that changing the body is neccessary to match the brain, also say it only needs to declared as an identity and there is no need to change the body, or say that it is a fluid thing? Even changing day by day? How could a brain keep switching?

And why would some who had an opposite sex brain, then regret, desist, or detransition back to identifying as their body sex?

And also, how many different brains are there? Are there 72 - to explain all the genders? What kind of brains do non-binary people possess?

Or.. are there just many different personalities, and many, many ways to be male or female?

Thanks to everyone who has addressed the points raised in my post (and apologies to OP if I've derailed the thread). The person I was referring to Michael Walker from Novara Media.

Didn’t the Interim Cass report say nobody should be saying someone is “born in the wrong body”. I remember Mermaids and Stonewall doing a massive reverse ferret and having to take down/change lots of their website.