Kemi Badenoch on Cass - calls for review

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/148061a7-bcea-46c7-84e6-be6ee29d7ce2?shareToken=2f582f76ec269e6e20578142389f9472

'Over three decades, politicians of all parties have outsourced power to so-called independent institutions. They were meant to take the politics out of decision-making but have themselves become politicised often with little to no ministerial oversight. They are no longer impartial. As politicians ceded control, many institutions became captured by a minority of ideological activists. When ministers raise the alarm or intervene this is demonised by Labour MPs such as Yvette Cooper as engaging in “culture wars”.'

...

''It is also time for an in-depth review of decision-making across the public sector. How is it that senior leaders ignore the law and allow groups like Stonewall to make up what it should be?''

Presumably after Cass, hospitals will have to change practices.

They may be sued for what went on before, but now cannot claim to be ignorant.

Yes.

It’s interesting to see the shift to recognising harm to children

Whereas a few posters were ‘no one cares’ before.

Obviously people do care, it was just part of the suppression of facts. But why would you do that knowing the impact on children?

I’m guessing Labour party loyalty, but still. Children? It will be a major scandal and some pp were complicit in that.

The Conservatives threw down a gauntlet. Labour had to either continue with their previous approach and ignore Cass, or U turn. If the former it would have become an election issue and an election liability.

Labour U turned. Hopefully we will now see continuing momentum. By the election (almost certainly in October or November) it will be very difficult for Labour to go back on this. The Overton window has moved.

There were moves in the 00s/10s which were all about ‘young people having a voice’ and ‘letting young people speak for themselves’ along with concerted efforts to silence and shame experienced people and experts from contributing. It was around the emerging popularity of ‘intersectional’ analytics. So the majority of experienced and expert people in Europe could be dismissed as ‘privileged’ for being white, male or ‘old’. So they duly buttoned it.

It was that wave of young people, with no relevant knowledge, experience or expertise, like James Morton of Stonewall Youth in Scotland who were ‘given the space’ and ‘given the platform’ to allow ‘young people’ to ‘speak for themselves and be involved in decisions which affect them and everyone else’, while all those with the relevant knowledge, expertise and experience were shamed into silence and held back.

So here we are.

You can go back further to PIE, and the idea that children needed love.

That took hold in all sorts of unlikely places, until it didn't.

This is the second time I’ve felt incredulous over what is happening when it comes to children and young people. The first was the backlash against anyone pointing out they would be harmed more by the pandemic measures, which recently was recognised.

And this time it’s the sheer energy in discrediting, undermining and trying to stop women effecting change to gender harms to children.

I can only assume it’s either political loyalty and / or incredibly effective messaging. The first case is very effective behaviour change messaging I’d say, the second more likely party loyalty and media preference where language of suppression was used.

It amazes me the posters who tried that hard to suppress the harms

This will run and run for years. The effect will be pretty chilling institutionally because you will definitely have all the chancers running for the exits if the prestige and money has gone. So this is an excellent result because less money and lots of scrutiny mean a real practical change without any immediate action. Expect the usual resignations, changes of specialism and reformatting of charities to meet whatever is the new case however.

Completely cynically it still makes money and a collapse in these services publicly leaves a void for seriously unscrupulous private treatments to grow.

I watched it all yesterday. She did say more words, the gist of which were that Cass found that culture is not enough to explain the rise in femald transition, girls are being exposed to violent and coercive porn on line which could be a factor. Then she didn't address that with the Government response.

This Government have consistently prevarication, blocked and dropped legislation to try to deal with degrading and harmful porn, and the ability of children to access it.

The production and availability of porn on the Internet is a huge issue for me and I think one of the root drivers for the rise in trans identification. I want to hear what Politicians propose to do about it. Otherwise they are dealing with the symptoms not the cause.

Harriet Harman and other Labour grandees bought into PIE.

As did Liberty.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5049352-amnesty-international-and-liberty-on-the-cass-review

I think my issue is this parochial view that somehow this is a UK specific issue caused by "the left". It isn't, it's a global issue caused by Internet activism and organised trans activism in the West.

In 2015 this happened:
https://xtramagazine.com/health/why-the-closing-of-torontos-camh-gender-clinic-matters-69695

In 2017 the BBC made a really great documentary about it that was pulled under pressure from trans activists.

It is not surprising medical professionals were scared to speak out after what happened with Zucker. And our government at the time (under Cameron and then May) were pushing self ID just as much as anywhere else. At best they were asleep at the wheel, at worst they actively supported the ideology.

Cass has exposed all this and made it clear this is an issue that's politicised to the point of being almost unworkable. What I heard from Atkins yesterday was heavy on blaming "the left" and light on action. To be expected though, it is politics after all.

There has to be a statutory review asap to bridge the potential change in government.

Inquiry sorry.

What I heard was Atkins blaming labour for silencing dissent and being a huge part of creating the chilling effect. Not for the root cause. As yes, it is a global phenomenon.

I agree with her.

Having always been very much on the left of politics, this has been one of the most the most de-stabilising aspects of all of this for me. A sense of trust shattered. Its clear from this board how many feel that way.

When those you trust most and align with let you down, reveal a lack of integrity, and even turn on you, it is world-rocking.

It absolutely needs to be said.

Well indeed. It is rather disconcerting to think about the links between PIE and the LGBT rights movement in Scotland which, looking back, seems to be where this seems to have got traction first.

I think maybe I feel a bit differently because when I started following this no politicians of any stripe, no media outlets, no Internet sites etc would touch it.

The BBC made a very measured programme (which I hope they now reinstate) and got absolutely pilloried.

It is all very well Atkins and the rest thanking Joanna Cherry, Rosie Duffield, Jackie Doyle Price etc, but where was she when they were getting death threats?

Flipping Maria Miller and "the only objections I had to self ID were from women purporting to be feminists" and the hassle some Conservatives gave David Davies for the HoC meeting.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42858698.amp

I'm sorry, but I think its rank hypocrisy to pretend they were on the GC side all along but just scared. They didn't give a shit is the reality. A lot of them still don't, as evidenced by the very empty house last night and the fact it was majority women asking questions.

The Conservatives have really played an absolute blinder in rewriting history here.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the election and seeing what's actually going to be proposed to deal with the utter mess. I can't see any party putting out policy before that, sadly. Leaving gender distressed children in limbo.

There was a great article covering where each western country is on gender

A couple of EU countries have responded positively to the Cass review which is fantastic. Although some are too far gone at this point, sadly

I can’t think of anywhere else leading on this reverse?

Particularly with sound and robust approach from Dr Cass

Well actually you have a point there. This is the likely reason there will never be an inquiry because it would expose the Conservative policy for the last 14 years. This is why it won't happen!

I hear what you're saying@AdamRyan . Any kind of hypocrisy is galling.

However, I think we tend to have certain expectations for the political parties we share values with. So the focus for many, like me, will be on the disappointment we feel about our own political side.

And I never expected to see the level of disdain and shutting down that I've seen from a large portion of the labour party. Especially further on in the debate when awareness grew, and more voices- and many left wing voices- started speaking up.

It's a good point. I'm not a historic Labour member so I don't feel let down by them. I was a lib dem, and rescinded my membership over this. I can't see myself rejoining either because I felt let down by them on a whole range of issues including this.

I see Starmers Labour as a completely different beast to Corbyns Labour and Corbyns Labour was when they had a huge misogyny problem and got into bed with the likes of Lily Madigan (imo).

Can completely understand why loyal Labour voters would feel massively let down though.

I think a lot of it is to do with lazy thinking and greed. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't some attempt to destabilise the west

I am not normally a tin hat person but fear that the Internet has allowed people with questionable motivations to link up and jump on this bandwagon.

Which is why we need an enquiry to find put how it happened, including why our public institutions were so ill prepared to withstand a well organised lobby group.

I don't think it will happen. Too many: Dentons etc, have too much to lose.

I hope James Kirkup writes the book. He has followed the politics/power from the start.

It will take a lot. And not many people even admit the harms yet.

One major issue is this is underpinned by legislation, if we have the GRA in a way it’s likely a lobby group will push for the rights established within it

And that will gradually take over institutions

IMO the law is faulty and causing these issues. We likely can’t repeal so it’s how to limit damage to women and children given the poor law