SelfID law passed in German parliament.

[Brefugee]

It's done.
636 votes
373 yea
251 nay
11 abstentions

Am going to assume that there will now be a long legal challenge. I want to scream.

predictable, i guess. We have a lot of work to do

The Germans may have a particular reluctance to seem to be negative about the idea of being transgender, as if doing so might seem repressive and Nazi-like. I think I have read that transgender people suffered under the Nazis.

TRAs will have you believe that the main targets and victims of the 3rd reich was Transgender people, followed by Jewish people, the disabled etc etc.

It is piffle. The German government have said that was not the case and there are (IIRC) 3 recorded transgender victims, one was Jewish, one was gay and not sure about the other.

Don't buy into that utter tosh that seeks to put their "suffering" on a level with the victims of the nazis.

I've started getting emails from CitizenGO after signing their petion, which seemed straightforward.
Seems that they have found their own Omnicause (see current thread about Mary Harrington and Omnicause). WHO, pandemic law, world government... I don't think I'll be signing any more of their petitions.
Are there any other petitions by reputable organisations one could sign?

I don’t, but I was wondering if Germans are so sensitive to the idea that they might be like the Nazi’s that they overcompensate?

Otherwise, you would think it impossible for them to have so little reason that they think self-ID is a good plan.

@Delphin
There are several things going on at German Let Women Speak (I think I posted this here somewhere but might have been on another page / thread and could have been overlooked)
Big petition to the conservative parties to start the Normenkontrollklage, or write to the President, who can stop the law, too.
https://lasst-frauen-sprechen.de/sbgg-stoppen-wir-fordern-eine-abstrakte-normenkontrollklage/

No. They don't

Can we have ONE conversation about the modern German state without brining Nazis into it?

@ScrollingLeaves , The activists in Germany have obviously learned from the anglo world. The whole thing was introduced stealthily. I had two transwomen colleagues at my old job, but there was no activism around it then (mid to end 2010s). There was the odd report on a transgender person (all MtF, afair) on TV or in the newspaper, but I saw it as a sign of the society becoming more open. I only found out about the queer activism in politics and society, because I read a lot of British media. EMMA is a bit populistic in tone for my taste; had I read them back then I might have been clued in earlier, that it is happening here as well.

I haven't asked her yet, but my politically interested and active mum, who reads a lot of news (mostly in German) , has probably no idea of the implications of the SBGG. Only people who read english-language media might have picked up on the discussions. To really understand, one needs to do research on one's own, mostly in a foreign language. German mainstream media is getting better at not roundly shutting up critical reader's voices as transphobic, and actually writing critical articles themselves. But ask anyone on the street, and they will ask back "Hä?"

Thank you for your description of what has been happening in Germany @Delphin · Today 09:42
Stealth obviously got it all well bedded in.

Are you German?

I once was trying to talk to German friend about this. He did not know much about it; and I seem to recall from what he that the German language around this limited understanding too.

I wish I could remember more, so I may well be wrong, but it might have been that in German there are not separate words for sex and gender. You may know more.

I have moved back to Germany three weeks ago after many years away. But even living away, I was more clued up about the law than any of my family and friends in Germany.
Earlier, I heard a piece on HR3 that the law has passed in the Bundesrat.

The company I joined is a big international one, judging by the Intranet very much TWAW, but where I work everyone seems to be a bit more sensible.

@ScrollingLeaves "but it might have been that in German there are not separate words for sex and gender. "
Exactly. And the SBGG for the first time defines "Geschlecht". It says that it can be determined by every person itself (gender). Which basically explodes all laws that draw on the term "Geschlecht" without defining it. Which is all of the laws, including our constitution.

Very interesting.

Here we have the two words, but on the other hand most people do not know the difference.

Aaaand it's started:

https://x.com/missdelein2/status/1796881219218477155
A ladies' gym in Erlangen a few weeks ago used its Hausrecht to deny access to a male person ( who did not show a GRC or an ID with a female name during discussions).
Next thing the owner knew, she got a letter from the Federal Anti-Discrimination Commissioner(!), asking her to desist and recommended(!) a paynent if 1000€ in damages to the male person. It escalated from there. The male person instructed a lawyer, and the gym got a cease and desist order plus fines. They must be pretty sure that the new law gives them the leverage.

The owner of the gym has instructed a lawyer and is willing to go to the courts.
She wrote: "Apparently I am – unintentionally – [being used as a precedent]. What is certain is that I will not let myself get down and will continue to stand up for my safe space for women, which I have been offering for 32 years. I will not allow my business model to become absurd and will do everything to ensure that there is still a safe space for women." (Google Translation)

You can read the details on the website of Frauenheldinnen linked in the TwiX message (it's a gardening website, so I am not linking directly). If you use Google Translate or Deepl, you'll get a pretty good translation to English.

Reduxx has coverage of that story: https://reduxx.info/germany-womens-gym-fined-e1000-after-denying-balding-trans-identified-male-access-to-showers/

"In 2020, H. began hormone replacement therapy and laser hair removal. He is set to legally change his sex to “female” in September of this year."

So he just tried to use a law that is not yet in power to get his way. I might
have had a bit of compassion if he had come along with a GRC, but considering his history this is more of the old "I want, and you must do".

Countries' laws may say a man is a woman.

Reality says he can never be a woman - he remains male all his life, however he identifies and whatever body modifications he undertakes.

Reduxx is incorrect in that the ombudsman office hasn't issued a fine, but a recommendation for a "voluntary" payment nice gym you've got there, shame if anything happened to it. The Ministry of Justice has countered that by again, just as in the legislative process, pointing to Hausrecht, meaning it's within the discretion of the proprietor to set policy. Which is obviously true hut equally obviously subject to anti-discrimination law. So it's once more a Mexican standoff between both ministries.