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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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10
SidewaysOtter · 11/04/2024 12:44

They've been absolutely bloody awful to her and I'm not surprised she doesn't want to forgive those who've done their level best to publicly humiliate her.

Esgaroth · 11/04/2024 12:57

The Independent couldn't help getting in a few little digs and misrepresentations there, though, could they?

She's absolutely right that it's the kids and women who've been actively harmed who are owed an apology. Doubt they'll get it though.

Cailin66 · 11/04/2024 13:03

That article is atrocious. This bit:

Her comment comes after it was reported the author coulbe be investigated by police for misgenderingtrans people under Scotland's new hate crime law.

Scottish police have already confirmed they will not be investigating her Tweets, that they are not hate speech.

And it's clear there is no 'crime of misgendering' in Scotland.

NotbloodyGivingupYet · 11/04/2024 13:09

Esgaroth · 11/04/2024 12:57

The Independent couldn't help getting in a few little digs and misrepresentations there, though, could they?

She's absolutely right that it's the kids and women who've been actively harmed who are owed an apology. Doubt they'll get it though.

No I agree, they are trying to make her out to be some kind of vengeful monster, but the truth is there in her own words.
See also the slew of articles in the guardian over the last 24 hours implying that "trans kids" are now endangered.
And fwiw, I think that a 4 year waiting list for children with gender dysphoria is abysmal, but the NHS waits are abysmal across the board.

OP posts:
CorruptedCauldron · 11/04/2024 13:15

I don’t think Dan and Emma will be making any apologies to anyone as it’s gone too far and they’re up to their eyeballs in it. They thought they were being kind and virtuous allies at the time and that’s what they’ll cling to. They were on the right side of history while JKR was being a big old meanie, banging on about a marginalised and vulnerable group. We can only hope that in private at least, they’re having an “are we the baddies?” moment.

Agree that the article tries to make a dig at JK. Pathetic and biased journalism - but at least her quotes are there for all to read and understand. People will be peaking as we speak.

Beamur · 11/04/2024 13:19

I should have made a note - there was an article about this in another news outlet that simply described JKR as a campaigner for women's rights. Not a whiff of calling her a transphobe.

REP22 · 11/04/2024 13:29

Good for her. She's a very brave woman. The speech where Emma Watson said something about speaking on behalf of witches everywhere "...except one"[eyeroll] was deeply unpleasant.

I have nothing but admiration for JKR. Like some of her best characters, she's unafraid to say/do what is right, rather than what is easy.

SOxon · 11/04/2024 14:28

On a purely pragmatic level, Don’t bite the hand that feeds you
or in this case, made you millionaires and ingrates.
Karma is going to come to your doors, for sure.

JK Rowling’s integrity far surpasses the artifice of la Watson’s denigrations.

Cazpar · 11/04/2024 14:36

They don't have anything to apologise for. I disagree with them vehemently but they are allowed to have dissenting options.

They have not attacked JKR. They have expressed an opposite opinion.

I also never understand why Rupert isn't mentioned as he made very similar comments to Dan and Emma.

HappierTimesAhead · 11/04/2024 14:45

There is something incredibly smug about Radcliffe and Watson. They infuriate me to an unreasonable degree.

Datun · 11/04/2024 14:54

Cazpar · 11/04/2024 14:36

They don't have anything to apologise for. I disagree with them vehemently but they are allowed to have dissenting options.

They have not attacked JKR. They have expressed an opposite opinion.

I also never understand why Rupert isn't mentioned as he made very similar comments to Dan and Emma.

It wasn't just a difference of opinion. Watson talked publicly about ^witches' everywhere, 'except one', which was a personal dig. All the more irritating for her fondly imagining that it wasn't perfectly blatant.

And Daniel Radcliffe had the absolute temerity to apologise on J. K. Rowling's behalf! To her own fans.

Cazpar · 11/04/2024 14:58

Datun · 11/04/2024 14:54

It wasn't just a difference of opinion. Watson talked publicly about ^witches' everywhere, 'except one', which was a personal dig. All the more irritating for her fondly imagining that it wasn't perfectly blatant.

And Daniel Radcliffe had the absolute temerity to apologise on J. K. Rowling's behalf! To her own fans.

She said "I'm here for all the witches, by the way". Not offensive.

Where exactly has Radcliffe made an apology on JKRs behalf? He apologised to those who felt hurt by comments - that's not the same as apologising on behalf of the person who made them. If I say to a friend "I'm sorry you're feeling like this" because they're upset over someone, I'm not apologising on behalf of that someone.

Esgaroth · 11/04/2024 15:00

Radcliffe publicly apologised for her as if she was his embarrassing racist aunt or something.

Watson has definitely made public digs at her.

But as JK Rowling herself said, it's not her they should be apologising to. I totally agree they don't owe her any political allegiance and are quite entitled to their own opinions, although I do think they owe her far more respect and empathy than they've shown.

But when you've been promoting medical malpractice and the erosion of women's rights for social media likes, you should feel sorry.

HappierTimesAhead · 11/04/2024 15:00

Datun · 11/04/2024 14:54

It wasn't just a difference of opinion. Watson talked publicly about ^witches' everywhere, 'except one', which was a personal dig. All the more irritating for her fondly imagining that it wasn't perfectly blatant.

And Daniel Radcliffe had the absolute temerity to apologise on J. K. Rowling's behalf! To her own fans.

This! The misogynistic little weasel. Plenty of other actors could have played Harry Potter. No one other than J K Rowling could have written Harry Potter.

Username947531 · 11/04/2024 15:05

Another reason to like Tom Felton who played Draco Malfoy. He has continued to praise JK and although he hasn't spoken out on the trans issue, has of course been called transphobic by the activists.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/04/2024 15:06

Radcliffe publicly apologised for her as if she was his embarrassing racist aunt or something.

ISTR he has a friend who he acknowledges is a racist and he didn't have the same problem with that, strangely. Because he's a paternalistic sexist, I imagine. Some of the things he came out with at the time were clangingly tone deaf.

ABirdsEyeView · 11/04/2024 15:12

I think there's room for Watson and Radcliffe (especially Radcliffe) to apologise to both the children who were harmed and JKR! Absolute little scrote thinking he could apologise for her.

Datun · 11/04/2024 15:13

Cazpar · 11/04/2024 14:58

She said "I'm here for all the witches, by the way". Not offensive.

Where exactly has Radcliffe made an apology on JKRs behalf? He apologised to those who felt hurt by comments - that's not the same as apologising on behalf of the person who made them. If I say to a friend "I'm sorry you're feeling like this" because they're upset over someone, I'm not apologising on behalf of that someone.

He said:

"To all the people who now feel that their experience of the books has been tarnished or diminished, I am deeply sorry for the pain these comments have caused you

if you found anything in these stories that resonated with you and helped you at any time in your life — then that is between you and the book that you read, and it is sacred. And in my opinion nobody can touch that. It means to you what it means to you and I hope that these comments will not taint that too much."

But you're right. It's not an apology on JK's behalf, it's an apology for J. K. Rowling actual words.

And Emma Watson said I'm here for witches everywhere, and then archly mouthed 'except one'.

In one of the most irritating speeches I think I've ever heard, I might add.

Emma Watson is "here for all the witches" | EE BAFTAs 2022

Emma Watson steps on stage of the 2022 EE BAFTA Film Awards to present the award for Outstanding British Film. Subscribe to BAFTA ⏩ https://youtube.com/user/...

https://youtu.be/TD-vioiM2BU?si=61_pA0ON5Heeo3yv

OvaHere · 11/04/2024 15:42

There's a new HBO Harry Potter series in the works. I suspect it will be immensely popular if the video game is anything to go by. If they get the casting right the original film actors may end up supplanted for the younger generations of Potter fans.

There's a strong chance the new cast won't be drawn in to having a go at JKR on their way up.

Fukuraptor · 11/04/2024 16:06

I can forgive them having a different opinion, they don't have her life experience or her research into the topic. They also have careers vulnerable to cancel culture and perhaps hard for them to see outside the acting culture they have been raised in.

Where I really struggle with them (and indeed with any Harry Potter fans) who have distanced themselves from JKR is that surely if you've read the books, and know JKR, surely you'd look at what people are accusing her of and think, hold on a minute, and look into exactly what she's saying and try to understand her POV. Even if after giving her the benefit of the doubt you ultimately you disagree with her, surely you'd understand that she's trying to help women and children and see her as mistaken rather than an evil bigot?

I know it's possible for writers to diverge from the messages in their own work - Philip Pullman's Bolvangar and League of St Alexander couldn't be better critiques of blocking puberty and the current climate of fear in schools about wrong-think if he had planned them!

But I feel Jo earned at least an attempt to understand her position and to assume good intent (even if they ultimately disagreed about the risks or whatever) rather than a summary dismissal and distancing.

More concerning than his actual twitter comments, Daniel took part in a video thing where a child was talking about how they knew they were trans from a young age because they liked toys and activities (stereotypically associated with the opposite sex). I couldn't understand how an adult with an adult's experience of how diverse individuals can be, could watch a child say that and not question at all whether that was sufficient to justify medical transition (privately afterwards if not in front of the child) and distance themselves from the whole thing, rather than release the video and double down.

YankSplaining · 11/04/2024 17:04

What irritates me so much about them is that they seemed to have never stopped and thought that JKR has much more experience with the darker side of humanity than they do, and maybe they should respect that. I don’t mean to downplay the personal struggles they’ve had. I know Radcliffe is a recovering alcoholic and Watson dealt with a lot of creepiness from the media as a young actress. But they’ve never had to flee an abusive relationship with a small child and live in fear and poverty. Being a parent really opens your eyes to how vulnerable children are, and when this all started, neither of them had children. They never thought, “Hey, you know what? Jo went through horrible shit we can only imagine, so maybe we shouldn’t automatically dismiss her when she talks about her concerns about male violence.” Because that was one of the main points of her argument - if men can say they’re women and be granted access to women’s spaces, any man at all can come in.

I really and truly believe that all those hours playing Hermione convinced Emma Watson that she’s smarter than she really is. She was cast in the role at an age when preteens are just beginning to consciously think about their identities, and she was lauded for years for playing such a smart character. It wasn’t just one role she did as a child actress; it was her professional identity, a role she played in eight films, the reason anyone knew who she was. I don’t think she’s unintelligent, but I don’t think she’s a very particularly deep thinker.

Radcliffe spent his whole adolescence being very, very important to people around him. HP fandom has had this social justice aspect at least since the mid-2000s - HP Alliance, wizard rock bands donating album proceeds to various causes, the discourse around Dumbledore’s sexuality - and he probably he thinks he’s bravely stepping up to support marginalized people. It hasn’t occurred to him that this is really about women’s rights, and maybe he ought to listen to women because they’re the primary victims of trans self-ID. The women around him are probably very privileged as well. They don’t need a sports scholarship to go to college/university. If they need to get out of an abusive relationship, they’re financially stable enough that they won’t need to go to a shelter.

Vod · 11/04/2024 17:31

CorruptedCauldron · 11/04/2024 13:15

I don’t think Dan and Emma will be making any apologies to anyone as it’s gone too far and they’re up to their eyeballs in it. They thought they were being kind and virtuous allies at the time and that’s what they’ll cling to. They were on the right side of history while JKR was being a big old meanie, banging on about a marginalised and vulnerable group. We can only hope that in private at least, they’re having an “are we the baddies?” moment.

Agree that the article tries to make a dig at JK. Pathetic and biased journalism - but at least her quotes are there for all to read and understand. People will be peaking as we speak.

I don't think so either.

They'll either double down, or shut the fuck up and then much later on, try and excuse their stance as having been caused by the toxicity of the other side.

SOxon · 11/04/2024 19:06

@YankSplaining thank you for this

TheClogLady · 11/04/2024 19:11

I know I keep wanging on about how the trans trend is falling away for many younger Zoomers/older Alphas, but I am nonetheless struck by how desperately uncool Dan Radcliffe and Emma Watson now seem.

They both ‘peaked in high school’ and now
look like a couple of extremely rich but still desperate-to-be-relevant sadsacks, as the kids are wont to say.

Meanwhile, Gen X’s music and fashion is experiencing a massive revival, yet Millennials are almost as uncool as Boomers 😆