Biology is not as simple as one might think trust me i am a biologist….

[Karensalright]

Is it the case that those supporting gender ideology have developed a new tactic? Coming on here pretending to be a scientist stating their profession, and then proffering their expert knowledge via a link to wiki?

Surely if they were telling the truth they would link us to a peer review paper from a scientific website.

Is it a new trend or have I just cottoned on to it. In an attempt to influence new comers.

Replies and discussion gratefully appreciated, as long as you don't point out that i can be a bit thick..

@Helleofabore presumably this is an exposure to testosterone because

“I’m happy to accept that they are females, who have suffered a genetic/hormonal accident in their early development. And accept them with sympathy as women.'
So this must mean XY 'females' with male bodies otherwise we wouldn't have to accept them as women because females are women.

Freemartins are chimeric female cows which have acquired some XY cells from their male twin in utero. This interferes with normal female development.

Interesting, but not relevant.

I dont think I have been vitriolic anywhere. Any angst I may have is just irritation that there’s a six page thread based on the premise that I, personally, am a liar.

So you don't know, but you then point us to what seems to be a known DSD in cattle? One requiring a twin that is male to directly impact the development of the female calf.

And you think that because of the existence of this known DSD, that it applies to humans? Can you explain how please.

I don’t know, nor did I claim to. My degree was Agricultural Science,

It was a botanist that tried to explain polyploidy to me. "Quite significant in the domestication of crops" was the TL;DR I took away.

If I dress my dog in a spider hallowe'en costume I might be happy to see him as a giant hairy spider even while knowing he was canine. It wouldn't give him the right to spin a web from the roof beams.
I now have an image of a great dane spinning a massive web 😱

I think it’s perfectly possible that some humans that present as men have “a sense of self” as female. I’m happy to accept that they are females, who have suffered a genetic/hormonal accident in their early development. And accept them with sympathy as women.
@FlemishHorse I still have no idea what a sense of self as a female is. Perhaps you can use your scientific degree to explain what that is please. I'm one of the thick people so please be kind.

I used to work with a bloke about 40 years ago who bored on about freemartins in an attempt to convince us that feminism was unnatural and women shouldn't get uppity. Takes me right back.

Did you ever ask him to explain why men have nipples? 😂

The developmental stages of embryos that include development of nipples before differentiation stage, does not mean that sex is not set at conception. And that a male who declares they feel like a woman is doing so from any biologically proven condition.

I believe that this has been very well researched and there is no theory that remains to support a biological reason why a male feels they are female. If there was, it would be widely used as a diagnostic tool.

Dear God, yes, men's nipples did get bandied about (as it were) (not by me I hasten to add). Were you there?

I think you should justify your “belief” with links to the research in peer-reviewed publications.

Male mammals typically have rudimentary nipples, with a very few exceptions.

It's not exclusive to humans.

Can you point us to the diagnosis test that shows that this is related to a biological condition please?

And I don't mean diagnosing DSD conditions. I am only referring to a diagnosis tool developed for identifying trans people.

Maybe you can point it out in the Cass report?

Can you explain how a female calf's DSD requiring the presence of a male calf is anyway related to a male human declaring they are a woman? You are the one who has made this point, along with males having nipples, you obviously feel that these points are relevant.

@FlemishHorse i
you require peer reviewed research for someone else’s post, oh the irony.

I was being (mildly) sarcastic…

I think of my dog as my furbaby, sadly, but it didn’t occur to me to expect the local nursery to offer him a place.

You can choose to perceive men as women, you can’t choose to allow them in women’s spaces or give them women’s prizes.

You can treat the emperor as wearing a fancy new suit, but most of us aren’t going to.

So, that is a no to answering any questions then? So, you being a 'biologist' is really irrelevant to the entire discussion, isn't it?

You used it in that other thread as a plea to authority though as if being a biologist gave you some special insight that supported your belief that a male can be a woman.

I don't believe regular posters are confused that chromosomal sex is just part of the categorisation of humans into sex categories. We agree, chromosomes are complicated but they do not destabilise the categories of sex. In fact, considering that a great many of the conditions only ever impact one sex, it is remarkable how stable the sex categories of humans really is.

Thanks for clarifying.

I’m happy to let you have the last word.

(Oh bugger….)

@FlemishHorse - sense of female self please , once you've finished with your snarky responses to @Helleofabore . It's a genuine question of mine.

DeanElderberry · Today 11:35

Weaponising qualifications and lack of same is classic internet argument though, not in any way confined to feminist or gender issues.

I was going to say "the rhetorical trick of appeal to authority," but damn if Helleofabore hasn't beaten me to it.

FlemishHorse

As you are asking for peer reviewed articles, perhaps you'd like to reciprocate? No clownfish, or hermaphroditism in Platyhelminths, please!

It just means pretend, doesn't it.

It's the be kind brigade who are happy to play pretend for the sake of the hurtyfeelz. Us GC feminists who won't pretend that transwomen are women because of well thought through implications are then the bad guys.

@FlemishHorse of course you know you are who you say you are. That doesn’t diminish how frequently other people have arrived here claiming to be experts wanting to clear things up for us, having underestimated the remarkable pool of knowledge and experience already shared.

I remember fondly the young man who announced himself with, in essence, ‘man and IT expert here, to help you ladies with any IT issues you may be having’. The wit and snark he received was, well…. Educational!

Now you mention it, there is more than a whiff of this.

"Oh thank GOD you're here! Thank you SO much. I've been using these magic boxes for over 20 years without a CLUE what I'm doing. I remember when the demon known as the internet came into my house. you'd have been about 5 back then. I have been keeping the evil at bay with chicken legs and candles. Thank goodness you've arrived.

Back when my job involved working on these machines all day, I just bashed them with my tits and hoped for the best.

I'm not actually sure how I managed to get on here, tbh. I was dusting it one day and all this stuff appeared."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/2307274-I-am-everything-you-hate-about-people-on-the-internet-I-am-here-to-help?

That was a good day. A post so succinct, that my mind's eye instantly conjured up said poster, tits, keyboard an all.