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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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76
Helleofabore · 09/04/2024 07:27

RoyalCorgi · 09/04/2024 06:55

Similar kind of thing in the Times:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-gender-identity-children-cass-report-h3k6m9rq3

This paragraph is particularly significant, and I think will be fundamental in ending the pipeline of teenagers to surgery and hormones:

"It is expected to say that children who want to change their sex should not be moved over to adult gender clinics when they are as young as 17. Dame Hilary Cass is also expected to recommend that they should retain the same support team that they had as adolescents because the brain is still developing until the age of 25. She is expected to advise doctors and clinicians to exercise caution."

Blimey! That is positive. It is like so many of the things I have written in consultations.

I wonder if Dr Cass has set up special care for detransitioners?

ResisterRex · 09/04/2024 07:29

KCSIE and the PHSE/RSE lessons must be tackled in a clear and legally robust way. I'm tired of hearing about the Equality Act. It is not the only consideration and it damn well never was. Authorities have to balance all the matters and issues. The elevation of of one Stonewalled piece of law has to end.

Helleofabore · 09/04/2024 07:30

Of course, the proof will be whether the new centres end up just like the old centres. And they seem to be shaping up as just moving the team to a new location but maybe this is not true. And I hope it is not the team moving location.

Topofthemountain · 09/04/2024 07:30

The Telegraph understands that the report will find that children who think they are trans disproportionately have mental health issues such as a difficult family situation or having suffered from abuse. They are also more likely to be neurodiverse.

Exactly what posters on this board have been saying for years. I'm not sure whether to be relieved that it is finally being acknowledged or angry that the issue, that was blindingly obvious, was ignored.

DisappearingGirl · 09/04/2024 07:32

Before the shit hits the fan, I just want to say how brave I think Dr Cass and her team are for taking this on.

BonfireLady · 09/04/2024 07:34

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 05:12

The Telegraph understands that the report will find that children who think they are trans disproportionately have mental health issues such as a difficult family situation or having suffered from abuse. They are also more likely to be neurodiverse.

Suffering from abuse. KCSIE now

I really hope that whatever wording she uses in the report is enough for those making decisions in the DfE to grab (be forced to hold?**) the baton and join everything up 🤞

**If it's laid out in unambiguous terms that any children who declare a gender identity that differs from their sex are likely to have mental health issues and/or be suffering from abuse, there is a point where it is impossible to say that there is no safeguarding issue.

Also, on a related note, it's great to see mention of "up to 25 years". EHCPs cover children and adolesents up to 25 years old because of their vulnerability. Even though the Cass Review is only for under 18s, again it is passing out the baton very clearly to those in education and healthcare (there is an NHS review of adult services due soon) to join everything up.

ResisterRex · 09/04/2024 07:35

The next grift - arguably already here - will be "neurodiversity inclusion". It's a new, vague and liberally applied label, which already serves to ward off questions. I hope whatever is meant by "neurodiversity" is spelled out in this report. If Cass means autism, say autism. Don't allow important issues to become collapsed into badges and signatures and "training" again. Enough. We've had enough of this and we know where it leads.

borntobequiet · 09/04/2024 07:40

Yes, this was the bit that stood out for me too in the Times report, so I’ll copy it again

It is expected to say that children who want to change their sex should not be moved over to adult gender clinics when they are as young as 17. Dame Hilary Cass is also expected to recommend that they should retain the same support team that they had as adolescents because the brain is still developing until the age of 25. She is expected to advise doctors and clinicians to exercise caution.

I think this is so important, because there will be 15 and 16 year old children who would otherwise bide their time for something that is no further away than sixth form is, telling their parents “when I’m 17 I can do what I want”. But 25? That’s Grown Up Land, well beyond their comfort zone, practically ancient.

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 07:42

Yes words used and clarity of language is incredibly important here.

The NEU motion that was passed about campaigning against the gov guidance uses the exact words that are in KCSIE, that "being lgbt isn't in itself a safeguarding issue."

This needs better clarification and the T needs to be divorced from the LGB within that document. And then the safeguarding issues carefully spelt out.

Both the fact that it can indicate other safeguarding issues, as well as social transition carrying significant psychological and physical harms.

FinallyASunnyDay · 09/04/2024 07:48

Placemarking. The above snippets make me more excited about tomorrow than I am about Christmas.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/04/2024 07:53

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 07:42

Yes words used and clarity of language is incredibly important here.

The NEU motion that was passed about campaigning against the gov guidance uses the exact words that are in KCSIE, that "being lgbt isn't in itself a safeguarding issue."

This needs better clarification and the T needs to be divorced from the LGB within that document. And then the safeguarding issues carefully spelt out.

Both the fact that it can indicate other safeguarding issues, as well as social transition carrying significant psychological and physical harms.

Shamefully the group lobbying for children to be transitioned - Stonewall - were allowed to write that paragraph in KCSIE. They boasted about it online.
Yet another example of how this ideology has been able to influence every aspect of guidance and legislation to the detriment of children's safety.

https://twitter.com/Nancy_M_K/status/1678389660383338496

334bu · 09/04/2024 07:53

Very important day tomorrow.

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 07:54

FinallyASunnyDay · 09/04/2024 07:48

Placemarking. The above snippets make me more excited about tomorrow than I am about Christmas.

It's the holidays and I was definitely very on edge yesterday

domineastronomy · 09/04/2024 07:55

Feeling so positive about this.

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 07:57

Shamefully the group lobbying for children to be transitioned, Stonewall, were allowed to write that paragraph in KCSIE. They boasted about it online.
Yet another example of how this ideology has been able to influence every aspect of guidance and legislation to the detriment of children's safety.

Yes and part of the motion includes a rigorous online campaign about it. As young teachers are encouraged to use edutwitter, they'll see it. This is a deliberate and dangerous ploy.

I hope that schools guidance will be statutory. It needs to be.

ArabellaScott · 09/04/2024 08:00

It always had to fall eventually.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 09/04/2024 08:19

So, tomorrow, not today as the times suggested?

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 08:35

Suzanne Moore has written a piece in the telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/04/09/cass-report-trans-children-have-been-lied-to-by-adults/

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 08:38

Some believe that socially transitioning kids will lock them into a gender identity and medical pathway that is detrimental. Cass emphasises that gender expression is indeed fluid and changeable for adolescents and that many may take till their mid-20s to settle. In other words, leave these kids alone.

Indeed, faced with this huge increase in kids saying they are trans, many schools have acquiesced. Yet teachers are not clinicians, nor are they there to diagnose children. Do they understand what they are doing? The entire narrative around trans children has been imported from America but it is breaking apart.

RainWithSunnySpells · 09/04/2024 08:42

Archive copy of the Times article.
https://archive.is/XEGvs

BonfireLady · 09/04/2024 09:17

AnneLovesGilbert · 09/04/2024 08:51

Guardian article. Doesn’t use the word trans once.

Blimey. I nearly fell off my chair reading that.
It actually looks like... journalism.

ArabellaScott · 09/04/2024 09:20

Amelia Gentleman has been good on this subject, especially given the paper she's publishing in.

OP posts:
Brainworm · 09/04/2024 10:08

I am anticipating the Cass report being sensitively worded and focussing on the treatment of distress. The Guardian is right not to mention 'trans' in their article as children and young people are referred to specialist services because they are suffering and need help. This is where the CASS report kicks in - they need a high standard of care that will improve their long term outcomes, and where it's the case that the evidence base is lacking, the approach needs to be carefully considered by a multidisciplinary team with expertise across different fields.

For most other groups, a report suggesting the above would be welcome with open arms (with caveats relating to adequate funding coming alongside it). Sadly, I think vocal TRAs will promote this as a barbaric development that will harm. This will be fuelled by vitriol from some who have been hurt and angered by the damage caused through meeting the one dimensional demands of TRAs.

As someone working in this field, my approach (which is authentic) will be to say that as long as each patient (who will be be treated for gender related distress, or what is manifesting as gender related distress) is skilled and working to a protocol that is rigorous, the children should be in safe hands. Clinicians at this level are *or certainly should be) skilled in supporting those with suicidal ideation and assessing the risks. They also are skilled at managing ultimatums based on this.

Some people, believe in good faith, that it is abusive to deny physical treatment to those experiencing distress. We are in a culture of over prescribing, and in the case of mental health, providing medication rather than addressing the problems in living causing the symptoms. For those working with vulnerable children presenting with gender distress, medication offers an alluring promise of a quick fix. If they buy the idea that this is being denied due to governmental interference and ideology, this will not help matters at all. For many (most in my experience) parents and teachers, the children they have in mind needing tier 3 services are ones who make themselves so small, as if to try to be invisible. The ones that bang on about being non binary and demanding trigger warnings aren't the ones being referred by them or parents (those referrals came from Mermaids and other local LGBT support groups). I am confident (well I hope) that Cass will address referral routes and provide guideline about referral. I think she will make it clear who this service is for.

I don't imagine the service will be one for young people for whom all aspects of their life are fine other than they wish to alter their sexed bodies and don't want this want pathologised. I expect this group will be left without an NHS funded service for this. This has always been the case but perception fuelled by bad practice is why some thought otherwise. The options for this group will be to pay for private treatment (for as long as this is allowed), or to wait until they are eligible for adult services - hopefully at 25. However, I expect the CASS review will trickle through there as well and they may well be reviewed also.

Someone mentioned neurodiversity up thread. There are lots of parallels with trans advocacy and autism advocacy whereby a belief is held that all decisions about autistic people should be made by autistic people and no validity or weight should be given to anyone else. This is what is, in my view, kryptonite to school leaders / governing bodies and other institutions. This zeitgeist seems to shut off leaders critical thinking, or maybe their courage to share their critical thinking. The bottom line is that they are the decision makers and need to lead from listening to a wide range of experts, not just experts through experience.