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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this the most 'woke' headline ever? "How climate change is hitting vulnerable Indonesian trans sex workers"

80 replies

RandySavage · 03/04/2024 10:14

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/indonesian-transgender-climate-change-bandung-b2522422.html

I don't think I've seen even Titania McGrath manage to get so much oppression into so few words.
Can anyone do better?

How climate change is hitting vulnerable Indonesian trans sex workers

Nearly 93% of respondents saw decreased income during the rainy season

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/indonesian-transgender-climate-change-bandung-b2522422.html

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TempestTost · 06/04/2024 00:38

None of those articles are talking about racism.

Disparities are not the same thing at all.

lechiffre55 · 06/04/2024 11:42

Can you actually express some of the key points in your own words?
I apprecaites all the links, but I'd like a person to clearly state a few key points.

I'll try and have a go myself on your behalf as an example.
You might argue that in cites different parts of the city are associated with different levels of wealth/poverty/household income. That seems a reasonable assumption to me. You might then make try to make the logical step that the higher wealth areas have more and higher quality parks and nature based facilities. I don't know if this is true, but it seems possible.
Can you see how this works?

Can I just remind you my questions.
Is there racial disparity in access to nature?
If yes, is that disparity due to racist or non racist factors? e.g. I would say living in a city where you have to travel a significant distance to get to nature is not a racist factor.
Is there racial disparity in how people are treated when they are accessing nature?
What could be done to improve things?

"Google it" is not an argument.
"The matter is settled" is not an argument, it's an attempt to avoid any debate.
Posting a bunch of links is access to supporting evidence thank you, but it's not an argument. I also wonder how much of those links you've read yourself? Or did you see the titles and think that looks good, I'll link that?
I'm looking for you to describe to me through logical statments in your own words what you meant when you mentioned race and access to nature.
If you can't make an argument of your own, then I will have to draw my own conclusions from your lack of argument.

NewOrder · 06/04/2024 11:48

lechiffre55 · 06/04/2024 11:42

Can you actually express some of the key points in your own words?
I apprecaites all the links, but I'd like a person to clearly state a few key points.

I'll try and have a go myself on your behalf as an example.
You might argue that in cites different parts of the city are associated with different levels of wealth/poverty/household income. That seems a reasonable assumption to me. You might then make try to make the logical step that the higher wealth areas have more and higher quality parks and nature based facilities. I don't know if this is true, but it seems possible.
Can you see how this works?

Can I just remind you my questions.
Is there racial disparity in access to nature?
If yes, is that disparity due to racist or non racist factors? e.g. I would say living in a city where you have to travel a significant distance to get to nature is not a racist factor.
Is there racial disparity in how people are treated when they are accessing nature?
What could be done to improve things?

"Google it" is not an argument.
"The matter is settled" is not an argument, it's an attempt to avoid any debate.
Posting a bunch of links is access to supporting evidence thank you, but it's not an argument. I also wonder how much of those links you've read yourself? Or did you see the titles and think that looks good, I'll link that?
I'm looking for you to describe to me through logical statments in your own words what you meant when you mentioned race and access to nature.
If you can't make an argument of your own, then I will have to draw my own conclusions from your lack of argument.

I don’t think anyone really wants to try and change the mind of yet another woman on the feminist board trying to claim what is racism and what isn’t.

nepeta · 06/04/2024 19:20

That headline offers so much food for thought:
"How climate change is hitting vulnerable Indonesian trans sex workers"

For instance, the term 'sex workers'. What it really means is people, almost entirely female people, who cater for the sexual relief needs of almost 100% male people, in exchange for money.

All those workers really are vulnerable. It's possible that male sex workers who identify as women but who also cater for male clientele are more vulnerable, perhaps because of acts by that very clientele and not just by the society (here Indonesia) in general?

Then there's the question if it would have been better to extend the analysis to all Indonesian sex workers, to find out if the ones who are not trans are faring any better. In other words, is it being in the sex industry or being trans or a combination of both which matters here? And what are the relative numbers of climate change sufferers in various income classes and industries in Indonesia? And are men and women suffering equally, more generally?

TempestTost · 07/04/2024 02:38

Yes, it seems like many of the issues would equally apply to sex workers who are women, or male but not trans, or even people in some other occupations altogether.

I would also say that some of the things they are attributing to climate change may be a bit of a stretch. I am finding it difficult to believe that there is a really a significantly differernt number of wet days, for example, to the point where prostitution would become much more onerous.

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