Woman's hour 2nd April 2024 JKR's 'hate' thread

[WarriorN]

First item is the Hate bill and JK's tweets - they did invite her on but haven't heard back yet

For women Scotland will be on too.

Yes.

Ditto "abuse".

@DadJoke just accidentally said something of significance.

“It would take much work to provide a list of women who had murdered babies, sexually abused children or other women

It would indeed take a lot of work, or at least a very good memory to do this, despite the fact that women who kill children are given way more attention than men who do the same.

JK Rowling chose her list carefully, I presume, but it wasn’t difficult to think of enough men to include. A fairly high percentage of men pushing the trans agenda are revealed over time to be sex offenders. She missed out lots of them.

Personally, I thought long and hard about correctly sexing some men on Twitter in order to test the law. It was actually hard to choose as choosing the more innocent men who are caught up in this, but aren’t really pushing the agenda seems unreasonable. The only men that are fair game are those who are behaving in abhorrent ways towards women. Had she chosen only one, she would have been accused of singling someone out unfairly. And several were men who haven’t been accused of criminal offences at all, but are high profile men, stealing things from women.

It’s good to see this is gaining traction and publicity though. That’s a lot of discussion on a topic that was previously largely ignored on mainstream TV and radio. I’m waiting to see what will happen next. I suspect the police and canny activists, will ignore women who are protected and ensure those who come under attack are the most vulnerable. That’s been the pattern recently. I’m sure those women will take heart in the fact that JK Rowling has made it clear she has their backs.

No it isn't.

Religious people and gay people are not larping as women and removing women's rights to single sex spaces without consent.

There is nothing strange about pointing this out at all.

I think that is there to protect drag queens, who have been subjected to a lot of abuse and accusations of paedophilia, but I am not certain. Some fetishists are cross dressers, but not all cross dressers are fetishists.

In an email to Scottish Government officials in February 2020, prior to the Bill’s introduction, the director of the Equality Network, Tim Hopkins, states:
‘the last thing we want to see is a bill introduced that reduces the protections of the current law, taking away protections from cross-dressers that they have had for 10 years under the 2009 Act.’
He explains the rationale for ensuring the Bill includes ‘cross-dressers’ under its definition of transgender identity:
‘A man who is not a trans woman but wears a dress for a drag performance, or a trip to the Rocky Horror Picture Show, or because he feels an emotional need to cross-dress occasionally is at high risk of transphobic hate crime and it is very likely that a perpetrator could later claim that they have no issue with "trans women who are really transitioning" and only had a problem with men dressing up as women without transitioning, so when they used the term "tranny" in the attack, they were only referring to transvestism / cross-dressing. The aggravation would not then apply if transvestism / cross-dressing is removed from the protection, because the prejudice was based on cross-dressing not on gender id

I don't really see how it is necessary myself.

Transgender people are subject to an increasing number of hate crimes especially in the last few years. This might be down to improved reporting, of course. This data is from Scotland, though it's also increased in England and Wales. These are crimes aggravated by hatred.

The Law Commission and some women's charities don't think that adding sex to the list of protected characteristics is a good idea, though I don't really understand why. I hope they get on and do it. I completely understand why women are upset about this.

They don't have a legal right under the EA2010 to do any of that. They are just being permitted to trample on the rights of women.

Also, why is punching a trans woman a more serious offence than punching a woman?

More so - Why is calling a ‘trans woman’ a man who is a fcking ugly cnt, a serious offence when calling a woman a fcking ugly cnt who looks like man, is just ..I don’t know, ok?

Aha....

Thanks to @ArabellaScott for the welcome ’men’ gifs/clips interlude. I particularly enjoyed the Irish dancing brothers.

Here's a question.

Scotland is part of the UK.

The Equality Act applies across the whole of the UK.

The Equality Act contains nine protected characteristics, including both sex and gender reassignment.

Why did the Scottish parliament not simply make this new law apply to all the protected characteristics under the Equality Act, rather than coming up with a new, reduced list?

The cops aren't going after her anyway. Just been confirmed that calling the people listed, men, isn't a criminal offence:

JK Rowling hate crime tweets not criminal - police
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68712471

"The Harry Potter author, who lives in Edinburgh, described several transgender women as men, including convicted prisoners, trans activists and other public figures."

(Not sure the Beeb intended this to read like convicted prisoners are "public figures" - or to imply there are non-convicted prisoners? - but there you go)

I suspect that JKR was actually hoping to be arrested and is quite disappointed about this.

Do you think we should ban all gay men from being scout leaders because of bad actors? You don't look at the protected characteristic, you look at the individual.

No way,. I bet she took legal advice before posting.

Shame the SNP and co didn't take legal advice before legislating

Scout leaders get police checks before getting access to children. Bloke in a frock with an erection can just walk into women's loos. Next to little girls.

If JKR isn't arrested, ordinary women can't be arrested for saying the same thing. What a legend she is.

Anybody telling you that hate crimes against transgender people are increasing in Scotland is talking pure pish -

'The hate crime statistics show that the number of charges with a transgender aggravation in Scotland fell to 55 in 2022-23 from 86 in the previous year. This is against a background of 3145 crimes with race as aggravation, 723 disability and 1884 sexual identity.'

www.copfs.gov.uk/publications/hate-crime-in-scotland-2022-23/html/

I suspect that JKR was actually hoping to be arrested and is quite disappointed about this.

Maybe. But either way it's a win for her - or rather, us. Police Scotland have confirmed that misgendering isn't a hate crime. So anyone who follows JKR's lead is safe.

I like it when @DadJoke comments because it is hard at times to imagine what on earth the TRAs and bearded bros who are so keen for women to give up their rights for are thinking. It's clear there is very low social and emotional intelligence to the arguments: which shows why these views are so much more likely to be held by privileged men who never feel the fear and vulnerability women and girls do.
Reading the PPs clear rational countering really helps me form concise and practised points to use to when discussing these matters with teenagers and young people.
So thanks all

except there are loads of circumstances where we (used to) do exactly that.

Why do we have female-only anything? Because, while not all men are rapists, all rapists are men. While not all men are sexual offenders, nearly all sexual offenders are men. While not all men are violent criminals, nearly all violent criminals are men etc etc etc. Everyone knows this. Every study since ever backs this up. And because there is no way of knowing which men are going to turn out to be violent and / or sexual predators we keep all of them out of certain spaces which are reserved only for women.

Women (should) have that right too. The right to say "that bloke in the pool shouldn't be swimming against women, etc etc

The issue is that TW are men and thus share in the propensity for male patterns of behaviour. We have single sex spaces in order to protect women and girls from some well established sex based differences; those which tend to pose an unacceptable compromise or threat, or certainly a level of discomfort to women and girls in female only spaces.

The public needs to be aware that males ( even those that identify as women) retain male pattern behaviour; including offending and sexualised behaviour - and that just because someone' identifies as a woman' it does not mean they cease to be male. Even if someone has a GRC or has had full surgical removal of the male sex organs this is still the case.

Gay men should have to have the same DBS checks as any other men before being allowed to work with children.

Similarly, all men should be barred from using women's single sex spaces, regardless of any special identity they claim to have.

All we're saying is that all men should be treated equally. (Man = adult male human.)

Gay men should be treated the same as all other men.
Men who identify as so-called 'transwomen' should be treated the same as all other men.

It's really not difficult to understand.

You mean aside from this? -

https://www.gov.scot/publications/independent-review-hate-crime-legislation-scotland-final-report/

She means men, including men who identify as women. Women's spaces are for females. Third spaces are the obvious solution.