Disciplinary action for ONS female employees if they object to trans colleagues using their lavatories

[ChristinaXYZ]

This -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/30/ons-female-employees-disciplinary-object-trans-toilets/

"Women working for the Office for National Statistics face disciplinary action if they object to male-born colleagues using single-sex lavatories and changing rooms, documents leaked to The Sunday Telegraph reveal.

A cache of HR policies, internal communications and posts from the ONS intranet show that the statistics body has been subject to “institutional capture” by trans activists, gender critical campaigners have alleged...

A set of ONS resources on “Gender Identity and Transitioning at Work” includes a manager’s checklist for supporting a transitioning employee with a section headed “use of single-sex facilities”.

It says: “Have you agreed when the employee will start to use single-sex facilities, such as toilets and changing rooms, appropriate to their acquired gender? This will usually be on the first day of transition.”

The document says that “if colleagues object to sharing facilities with employees going through transition, the situation should be dealt with through communication, discussion and education”.

“If colleagues persist with unreasonable objections you may need to manage the situation via grievance or disciplinary procedures.”"

Much more detail including a response from Sex Matters in the article linked above.

Also this:

“a trans employee should not be expected or asked to use the disabled facilities; to expect this may impede the individual’s transition, be embarrassing or offensive and may constitute harassment”.

Nothing about the detrimental effect on disabled employees who need those facilities, it's all about the trans. Why am I not surprised?

It's the Denton's playbook writ large. Capture an organisation at the highest levels, implement anti women policies using threats of disciplinary action to ensure that women make themselves available when vulnerable (using the toilets, undressing and showering etc). This ensures compliance from all women who are dependent on their employment.
Remember this thread way back in 2019 where women were criticised for walking out of a toilet on finding a man who claimed to be a woman in there? The arrogance and confidence of these men is off the scale and they've successfully resorted to techniques of coercive control, intimidation and bullying, enabled by the Civil Service and countless other organisations.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

I'd be tempted to ID as male but say that out of respect for the men, I'll stay in the ladies'. Just to see what would happen. But from an extra protected position of having the PC of GR. And sex. The correct sex.

Thanks for visiting. It is clear to see you have no empathy for the women who might have issues in sharing female single sex spaces with male people for many reasons, but also that you have your very own entrenched prejudice about people who post here.

It is also clear you don’t have a grasp of the issues being discussed. If you are at all interested, just ask. Otherwise, yours is one of those great posts that we look forward to that allow readers to see the lack of thought that goes into arguments as you have made them. Well done on that score.

Sorry, but else-thread you will see that among the apparently endless fetishes, some men get their pleasure from hearing women urinate. Of course, they have to go into the women- only loos, to obtain used sanitary products, and enable yet another fetish variant. (For paedophiles, used baby nappies are exciting, so a job in a nursery is great, especially if the employers believe the 'new identity) Two top favourites, of exposure (more correctly called pre-rape) and of secret filming, are best facilitated by going where women believe they are safe in women-only spaces. Another top favourite is autogynophillia, (sp?) which Grayson Perry recently admitted was part of his motivation for dressing up.

I know that ONS was targeted early - I remember interviewing someone for a civil service post in early 2017, who was then working at the ONS, and they talked about handling the demands for change to the census from TRAs as an example of stakeholder management.

I’m so depressed about this issue.

Not that men bully women and ensure that women can’t even change clothes or go to the toilet without men being entitled to watch/listen, men have been bullying women since the dawn of time.

But I’m so sad that a country that was one of the safest places in the world to be female, has become a place where women have no freedom of speech or privacy from the male gaze, and if women object to the destruction of our rights and basic privacy, male police officers joyfully write it up as a hate crime and uee it as evidence that transwomen need even more dominance, while ’captured’ employers happily destroy the woman’s livelihood just as male bullies have always sought to impoverish women who dare to have opinions.

Copying and pasting this section from the OP -

A set of ONS resources on “Gender Identity and Transitioning at Work” includes a manager’s checklist for supporting a transitioning employee with a section headed “use of single-sex facilities”.

It says: “Have you agreed when the employee will start to use single-sex facilities, such as toilets and changing rooms, appropriate to their acquired gender? This will usually be on the first day of transition.”

xxxxx So, if I have it correct, the employee may use the single-sex facilities appropriate to their acquired gender. Surely, this is an apparent contradiction once you understand that in the English language sex and gender are different terms. ONS needs to get its facts straight…

also if there is this:

“a trans employee should not be expected or asked to use the disabled facilities; to expect this may impede the individual’s transition, be embarrassing or offensive and may constitute harassment”.

What about those of both sexes that may have seizures/ collapse in the toilets? Could they change it to this:

“a medically vulnerable employee should not be expected or asked to use fully enclosed mixed sex facilities; to expect this will compromise the individual’s safety, could be live-threatening, be embarrassing and may constitute a breach of equality laws”.

or this:

“an employee should not be expected or asked to use mixed sexed facilities; to expect this may impede the individual’s religious beliefs, be embarrassing or offensive and may constitute a breach of equality laws”.

or this:

“an employee should not be expected or asked to use mixed sex facilities; to expect this may impede the individual’s safety and dignity, be embarrassing or offensive and may increase harassment”. (Since there’s loads of statistics to show most assaults take place in mix sex facilities and women tend to abstain or find alternatives, I think this is reasonable).

If the government go ahead with their preferred enclosed design for toilets (consultation 2023) even in single sex facilities (presumably to get round the gender ideology problem) it’s going to make it much more dangerous. Single sex toilets with door gaps should be the preferred design in schools and public buildings (where there is space for multiple toilets).

It indeed it all about the ideology superseding the safety of everyone.

Seriously 😂😂😂 you have no idea. I work for the most diverse company in the UK. I have more experience of LGBTQ than you'll ever know. One person gets raped in hospital, which is horrendous but the blame is on ever transgender woman in the country!.

A transwoman post surgery was jailed in a male prison and put in general circulation. She was raped more than 200 times in the time she spend in that male prison. She wasn't in jail for any sexually related crime, fraud I think. Did she deserve that. Of course not. But the majority of folk no nothing about that. Hate crime against another person just because they are different. Let's hope none of your children tell you they are trans. What happens, do you turn against them, disown them, kick them out. I'll leave you to your narrow minded thought process.

Bye then.

Citation needed.

Interestingly, the ONS had to back down a few years ago over their policy of putting an upper age limit on rape statistics.
Hopefully they can be made to follow existing equality laws this time as well.

Because disabled people don't count. There are other threads discussing this as I type

At least one pupil gets raped inside school premises each school day in this country (2015/6 statistics, discussed in Parliament). Mixed sex facilities are going to make this statistic worse. Of course, these are only the ones reported.

I don’t know the statistics for strokes, heart attacks, self-harm etc but I do know lots of people are found dead in public toilets, especially those that are fully enclosed because they can be there for some time unseen.

Fully enclosed toilets (like disabled toilets) are places disabled and able bodied women get trapped into and assaulted. Google will show you multiple recent reports.

As a mum and a teacher, I do have an idea. You have absolutely none.

How does that work if she has the right to the reasonable belief that transwomen are men?!!

Is this even fucking legal?!

Mog65

Men's prisons are violent places. Rape and other violent assaults are very common. Vulnerable prisoners are accommodated separately - 90% of trans prisoners are held in men's prisons without incident.

It's great that you are so passionate about the safety of one particular class of male prisoner in men's prisons. This thread is about women being forced to use changing rooms or toilets with men. Do you have any thoughts on that subject?

And again thanks for continuing to post because it really is enlightening.

You seem to ignore the needs of women and girls in all this. Your total focus is on male people and their issues. Your knowledge of LGBTQ+ is irrelevant really. You are on a feminism board.

So, because of a horrific incident where a vulnerable male person was raped instead of the prison system putting that male in a vulnerable prisoner section, you what? Believe that female people should be used as a protective shield to male people ?

Your points lack relevance and you have again shown you lack the knowledge and the understanding. Your equally as ignorant and quite hyperbolic ‘Let's hope none of your children tell you they are trans. What happens, do you turn against them, disown them, kick them out. ’ is another common tactic. It also shows that you really have no fucking idea because there are people on this board who interact with children who have declared trans identities on a daily basis.

Thanks again. Your ignorance and prejudice is outstanding and I doubt you have shown what you think you have shown. Again. Jolly well done.

Is this even fucking legal?!

I am pretty sure it isn't. I think there are statutory regulations about toilets at work. Before we even get to Forstater.

I don't think there's a citation big enough.

Yes. H & S regs as well as building regs.

Hopefully a certain poster is educating himself scrolling through all the articles supporting single sex toilets, trying to find an article that says the opposite.

ONS should stick to facts and statistics. We've been waiting two years (and counting) for the current given names data and they're farting around with this fantasy. Time well spent...

Isn’t there a TW very high up in the ONS?