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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

KJK’s insane rant

1000 replies

Dontblameitonsunshine · 26/03/2024 09:38

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

Part 2 - #FirstDoNoHarm although maybe #FirstDoSomeHarm - what will it take for medics to catch up?

This is the original #AdultHumanFemale channel and home of Kellie-Jay Keen aka Posie Parker.If you would like to donate to help support us, click here ⇨ http...

https://youtu.be/H509BAh59ak?si=tyTVneh2Jiz0rY6T

OP posts:
Thread gallery
63
TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 13:31

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 13:18

I think we should definitely have more rules around the Internet and online harms, and do support that kind of work.

For minors, sure.

But the answer to creeping authoritarianism isn’t shutting people you don’t like out of public debate.

BackCats · 03/04/2024 13:33

There’s no point railing against this new model of entertainment.

I miss the days of terrestrial TV, no ‘catch up’ and you could say “Did you watch Top of the Pops yesterday?” and 9/10 people would say “yes”.

We no longer live in those times. We are in an era of uncurated and largely user-generated content. There are no unifying sources of news. You don’t have to be an expert or to have any training to give it a go.

My kids watch a load of stuff of YouTube that I think is utter shit. I don’t know how they can stand it - the lack over overarching narrative, the crap editing, the meandering pointlessness.

But it seems they find it entertaining.

This is where we are and where we are heading.

If you can’t reconcile yourself to it, you’re probably going to need some help to accept it. It’s far easier to change yourself than the world.

And to bring it back to the context of the thread, KJK really can be held accountable for global trends like this, and she can’t be blamed for going with it either.

Should we break all the weaving looms and go back to knitting by hand?

TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 13:33

Datun · 03/04/2024 13:27

When people, I can't remember if it was you, complained that she had a nice hotel room in Australia, or New Zealand, and that everyone was a fool for giving her money to get it, did you not notice everyone saying we want her to have it? We don't care if she bathes in champagne?

Do you think women don't mean that?

I’m seriously considering sending KJK the price of a large, fancy cocktail in honour of this thread.

BackCats · 03/04/2024 13:35

KJK really can’t* be held accountable

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 13:40

Datun · 03/04/2024 13:27

When people, I can't remember if it was you, complained that she had a nice hotel room in Australia, or New Zealand, and that everyone was a fool for giving her money to get it, did you not notice everyone saying we want her to have it? We don't care if she bathes in champagne?

Do you think women don't mean that?

That wasn't me so I have no idea

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 13:40

TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 13:33

I’m seriously considering sending KJK the price of a large, fancy cocktail in honour of this thread.

I would do. Why not? Gin

theilltemperedclavecinist · 03/04/2024 14:00

Datun · 03/04/2024 12:49

Okay, so it's to add weight.

I mean, it should tell us something that of you ask a trans person why they are trans, you'll get as many different answers as people you asked.

I just wondered if you had found out something a bit more plausible

On reflection, when they say 'multifactorial', maybe they mean genetic/developmental/psychological factors, so they probably thought my response either idiotic or malicious.

Nobody is going to say 'I'm trans because of self-hating homophobia/mental illness/neurodiversity/social contagion/a fetish'. They all say 'I feel that I belong in (opposite sex group)' and/or 'my body is all wrong'.

I don't even find that 100% implausible. The brain is weird. There are people who think they're dead.

Where we differ is on what to do about it. I favour extreme medical scepticism and caution. But some people will always 'transition'. The biggest mistake was to give that a legal, rather than social, status.

Datun · 03/04/2024 14:05

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 13:40

That wasn't me so I have no idea

See that's what I mean.

You pretend that unless you said it, you can have no concept of it.

You have no idea that, when women say they are happy for her to spend their money on champagne, that they meant it.

As a concept, there's not enough information in that sentence for you to have 'any idea' about what it means.

This is why your contribution to these threads are nonsense.

It's my opinion that you just like to have a bit of an argument, by pretending words don't mean what they do, that none of these opinions that you constantly quote are really yours, and assuming they are, reflects on the person reading your posts, rather than you who is writing them.

It must take you for fucking ever to have a conversation in real life

Datun · 03/04/2024 14:07

theilltemperedclavecinist · 03/04/2024 14:00

On reflection, when they say 'multifactorial', maybe they mean genetic/developmental/psychological factors, so they probably thought my response either idiotic or malicious.

Nobody is going to say 'I'm trans because of self-hating homophobia/mental illness/neurodiversity/social contagion/a fetish'. They all say 'I feel that I belong in (opposite sex group)' and/or 'my body is all wrong'.

I don't even find that 100% implausible. The brain is weird. There are people who think they're dead.

Where we differ is on what to do about it. I favour extreme medical scepticism and caution. But some people will always 'transition'. The biggest mistake was to give that a legal, rather than social, status.

I think it's an exercise in goal post moving.

The premise for them wanting the medication will change, depending on who they're asking, and how they're supposed to justify it.

Helleofabore · 03/04/2024 14:12

"Also linked an article where the media regulator in NZ dismissed claims she'd been misrepresented."

Note to readers:

The article linked also published this statement from Ginny Anderson:

"The authority further said that it was a fact that neo-Nazis attended the British anti-trans campaigner’s Melbourne rally in March 2023 and performed the Nazi salute outside Victorian Parliament."

"The authority said that it was open for the media to describe that neo-Nazis supported Keen. “They (neo-Nazi members of the National Socialist Network) were clearly not counter‑protesters, and they carried large anti-trans signage, indicating support of, or alignment with, Parker’s anti-trans rhetoric. Largely, their presence and actions at the Melbourne event were stated as fact, demonstrated in the accompanying footage for viewers t he authority further said that it was a fact that neo-Nazis attended the British anti-trans campaigner’s Melbourne rally in March 2023 and performed the Nazi salute outside Victorian Parliament."

"The authority said that it was open for the media to describe that neo-Nazis supported Keen. “They (neo-Nazi members of the National Socialist Network) were clearly not counter‑protesters, and they carried large anti-trans signage, indicating support of, or alignment with, Parker’s anti-trans rhetoric. Largely, their presence and actions at the Melbourne event were stated as fact, demonstrated in the accompanying footage for viewers to see for themselves.”

"The media reports that people “doing Nazi salutes” at Keen’s previous events, the authority said, “was a statement of fact, supported by footage, regarding people at a previous event that could not be said to leave viewers with an unfairly negative impression of Parker”.

"Police Minister Ginny Andersen’s statement Keen ‘does court the far right,’ was “her opinion, to which she is entitled”, the authority added.o see for themselves.”

"The media reports that people “doing Nazi salutes” at Keen’s previous events, the authority said, “was a statement of fact, supported by footage, regarding people at a previous event that could not be said to leave viewers with an unfairly negative impression of Parker”.

"Police Minister Ginny Andersen’s statement Keen ‘does court the far right,’ was “her opinion, to which she is entitled”, the authority added."

This is the article here.

https://archive.is/4YJlZ#selection-1305.0-1305.196

This was also the approach that the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, took and in the last week or so have now released that statement also posted up thread that states clearly that KJK has said she has no affiliation with the group.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/2024-03-27/kellie-jay-keen/103639808

That statement says:

"On 27 March 2023, the ABC broadcast a 7.30 interview with Victorian opposition leader John Pesutto. That interview referred to the organisers of the “Let Women Speak” event held in Melbourne earlier that month and included a social media post by “Posie Parker”. Some viewers may have understood the interview to suggest that Kellie-Jay Keen, who was not named in the interview, who organised the Melbourne “Let Women Speak” event, has associations with Neo-Nazis. The ABC understands Ms Keen denies any association with Neo-Nazis and the ABC does not endorse any imputation that may have been conveyed to that effect."

The Media Council and the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) in NZ has relied on false reports and likely John Pesutto's claims which have also been shown to be based on falsehoods and have now resulted in him facing three counts of defamation. And he certainly cannot say in his defence that ' the ABC 7:30 Report confirmed that KJK has these connections' because the ABC has removed that support irrevocably. His team trawled through wikipedia and created a dossier, without doing their due diligence.

The BSA and Media Council of NZ have made claims about that Neo-nazi that even the Neo-nazi group rejected. The Neo-nazi group stated very clearly on twitter that they were NOT there to support the feminists at all. They have no love for the feminists who were there at all. On page 29 of this thread I went through the event with the Neo-nazis. I am very happy if any poster wishes to know the timeline of the events of that group and their actions on the street. It is actually rather clear when the footage is shown from one of the 'auditors' what happened and how it has been misrepresented.

I suspect that if people renewed their complaints to the NZ authority, particularly after the evidence is shown to be so weak that John Pesutto has relied on, the statements made above would be withdrawn. Because they have been shown to be false and always were. Hence some fucking serious defamation cases against the Victoria state leader of the Australian Liberal Party.

And there is no denying that the statements were made by Ginny Anderson, or the BSA and Media Council or John Pesutto. The issue is that they relied on misinformation and misrepresentation to make their statements. Which is very concerning in view that these are people who are trusted to deal in facts.

By all means, let the claims that KJK is supporting the far right continue. It is a free world after all.

I and others will continue to point out the misrepresentations and falsehoods contained in the links that some posters post. Because misrespresentations and misinformation should always be addressed so that they don't continue to be recycled. And so readers know that when they see these posts that they know whether a poster is deliberately recycling misinformation or not.

Kellie-Jay Keen

On 27 March 2023, the ABC broadcast a 7.30 interview with Victorian opposition leader John Pesutto. That interview referred to the organisers of the “Let Women Speak” event held in Melbourne earlier that month and included a social media post by “Posie...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/2024-03-27/kellie-jay-keen/103639808

BonfireLady · 03/04/2024 14:14

I'm not sure if this thread is about KJK and the conference any more, so I've put my comment on a thread that's specifically about the conference. Linking it here in case it's of interest, as it pulls together KJK and what I hope can be addressed as a shared interest with attendees at the conference: raising awareness of autogynophilia and how this impacts the adolesent boys and young men who are part of the medical scandal.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5034435-firstdonoharm-conference-23-march-clinical-advisory-network-on-sex-and-gender?reply=134260650&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

I think I may have to mute/ignore this thread now as it's become somewhat unwieldy... (or maybe that's just me missing some of the history of how we got to where we are now in the discourse).

Page 6 | #FirstDoNoHarm conference 23 March (Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender) | Mumsnet

Thread for anyone attending or following the live stream. A variation on waiting for the conference host to start…

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5034435-firstdonoharm-conference-23-march-clinical-advisory-network-on-sex-and-gender?reply=134260650

ArabellaScott · 03/04/2024 14:22

Helleofabore · 03/04/2024 14:12

"Also linked an article where the media regulator in NZ dismissed claims she'd been misrepresented."

Note to readers:

The article linked also published this statement from Ginny Anderson:

"The authority further said that it was a fact that neo-Nazis attended the British anti-trans campaigner’s Melbourne rally in March 2023 and performed the Nazi salute outside Victorian Parliament."

"The authority said that it was open for the media to describe that neo-Nazis supported Keen. “They (neo-Nazi members of the National Socialist Network) were clearly not counter‑protesters, and they carried large anti-trans signage, indicating support of, or alignment with, Parker’s anti-trans rhetoric. Largely, their presence and actions at the Melbourne event were stated as fact, demonstrated in the accompanying footage for viewers t he authority further said that it was a fact that neo-Nazis attended the British anti-trans campaigner’s Melbourne rally in March 2023 and performed the Nazi salute outside Victorian Parliament."

"The authority said that it was open for the media to describe that neo-Nazis supported Keen. “They (neo-Nazi members of the National Socialist Network) were clearly not counter‑protesters, and they carried large anti-trans signage, indicating support of, or alignment with, Parker’s anti-trans rhetoric. Largely, their presence and actions at the Melbourne event were stated as fact, demonstrated in the accompanying footage for viewers to see for themselves.”

"The media reports that people “doing Nazi salutes” at Keen’s previous events, the authority said, “was a statement of fact, supported by footage, regarding people at a previous event that could not be said to leave viewers with an unfairly negative impression of Parker”.

"Police Minister Ginny Andersen’s statement Keen ‘does court the far right,’ was “her opinion, to which she is entitled”, the authority added.o see for themselves.”

"The media reports that people “doing Nazi salutes” at Keen’s previous events, the authority said, “was a statement of fact, supported by footage, regarding people at a previous event that could not be said to leave viewers with an unfairly negative impression of Parker”.

"Police Minister Ginny Andersen’s statement Keen ‘does court the far right,’ was “her opinion, to which she is entitled”, the authority added."

This is the article here.

https://archive.is/4YJlZ#selection-1305.0-1305.196

This was also the approach that the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, took and in the last week or so have now released that statement also posted up thread that states clearly that KJK has said she has no affiliation with the group.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/2024-03-27/kellie-jay-keen/103639808

That statement says:

"On 27 March 2023, the ABC broadcast a 7.30 interview with Victorian opposition leader John Pesutto. That interview referred to the organisers of the “Let Women Speak” event held in Melbourne earlier that month and included a social media post by “Posie Parker”. Some viewers may have understood the interview to suggest that Kellie-Jay Keen, who was not named in the interview, who organised the Melbourne “Let Women Speak” event, has associations with Neo-Nazis. The ABC understands Ms Keen denies any association with Neo-Nazis and the ABC does not endorse any imputation that may have been conveyed to that effect."

The Media Council and the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) in NZ has relied on false reports and likely John Pesutto's claims which have also been shown to be based on falsehoods and have now resulted in him facing three counts of defamation. And he certainly cannot say in his defence that ' the ABC 7:30 Report confirmed that KJK has these connections' because the ABC has removed that support irrevocably. His team trawled through wikipedia and created a dossier, without doing their due diligence.

The BSA and Media Council of NZ have made claims about that Neo-nazi that even the Neo-nazi group rejected. The Neo-nazi group stated very clearly on twitter that they were NOT there to support the feminists at all. They have no love for the feminists who were there at all. On page 29 of this thread I went through the event with the Neo-nazis. I am very happy if any poster wishes to know the timeline of the events of that group and their actions on the street. It is actually rather clear when the footage is shown from one of the 'auditors' what happened and how it has been misrepresented.

I suspect that if people renewed their complaints to the NZ authority, particularly after the evidence is shown to be so weak that John Pesutto has relied on, the statements made above would be withdrawn. Because they have been shown to be false and always were. Hence some fucking serious defamation cases against the Victoria state leader of the Australian Liberal Party.

And there is no denying that the statements were made by Ginny Anderson, or the BSA and Media Council or John Pesutto. The issue is that they relied on misinformation and misrepresentation to make their statements. Which is very concerning in view that these are people who are trusted to deal in facts.

By all means, let the claims that KJK is supporting the far right continue. It is a free world after all.

I and others will continue to point out the misrepresentations and falsehoods contained in the links that some posters post. Because misrespresentations and misinformation should always be addressed so that they don't continue to be recycled. And so readers know that when they see these posts that they know whether a poster is deliberately recycling misinformation or not.

Thank you for your calm posts, patiently laying out the facts over and over again.

It's bone achingly tedious to have to refute bad faith bullshit so often, but hopefully every time it is done more people become aware of what has actually happened.

And I'm sending KJK a tenner for a cocktail. I hope she enjoys it or spends it on whatever she fancies. Cheers to the haters.

ArabellaScott · 03/04/2024 14:26

I stay out too late
Got nothing in my brain
That's what people say, mm-mm
That's what people say, mm-mm

I go on too many dates
But I can't make 'em stay
At least that's what people say, mm-mm
That's what people say, mm-mm

But I keep cruisin'
Can't stop, won't stop movin'
It's like I got this music in my mind
Sayin' it's gonna be alright

'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off (hoo-hoo-hoo)

Taylor Swift - Shake It Off (Taylor's Version) (Lyric Video)

Watch the official lyric video for “Shake It Off (Taylor's Version)” by Taylor Swift, from ‘1989 (Taylor’s Version)’.Buy/download/stream ‘1989 (Taylor’s Vers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvVBuG4IOW4

Jellycats4life · 03/04/2024 14:29

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 13:16

And like the other examples upthread - guess what Hope not Hate is?

You guessed right! Its a charity folks. But KJK is nothing like a charity. Only a fool would mistakenly donate her money thinking it was being used for charitable purposes, rather than for her personal income.

😂 The way you’re talking, it’s almost like you’ve convinced yourself that charity staff (especially CEOs) don’t get paid good salaries (enormous salaries in some cases) for their work.

Are you really suggesting that the only ethical way KJK can ask for money for Let Women Speak is to not use company funds to pay her travels costs and - shock horror - a salary?

TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 14:33

HnH is a company with a separate charitable trust (often done for tax purposes).

KJK’s insane rant
KJK’s insane rant
Helleofabore · 03/04/2024 14:34

AdamRyan · 02/04/2024 13:59

Did you read the article? It's a summary of what the NZ regulator found, so quite the opposite of "false claims". It found that saying "Keen does court the far right" to be an opinion someone is entitled to hold.

Media was not wrong in describing Kellie-Jay Keen aka Posie Parker as “anti-trans” or that neo-Nazis supported her in Melbourne, New Zealand’s media watchdog has held....The Media Council and the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) dismissed a slew of petitions filed by Keen’s supporters.....The BSA said that the descriptors “anti-trans”, and “trans-exclusionary” were an “accurate characterisation of her publicly-expressed views”....The authority further said that it was a fact that neo-Nazis attended the British anti-trans campaigner’s Melbourne rally in March 2023 and performed the Nazi salute outside Victorian Parliament. The authority said that it was open for the media to describe that neo-Nazis supported Keen.....The media reports that people “doing Nazi salutes” at Keen’s previous events, the authority said, “was a statement of fact, supported by footage, regarding people at a previous event that could not be said to leave viewers with an unfairly negative impression of Parker”......Police Minister Ginny Andersen’s statement Keen ‘does court the far right,’ was “her opinion, to which she is entitled”, the authority added.

All these lawsuits must be costing KJK a fortune.

"All these lawsuits must be costing KJK a fortune."

Care to clarify what this statement was intended to highlight, AdamRyan?

Was it your intention to victim blame Kellie Jay Keen ?

TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 14:37

Helleofabore · 03/04/2024 14:34

"All these lawsuits must be costing KJK a fortune."

Care to clarify what this statement was intended to highlight, AdamRyan?

Was it your intention to victim blame Kellie Jay Keen ?

Lawsuits are costing ALL of us a fortune.

Unless you subscribe to the Christian Fundie Bux Conspiracy Theory…

ScrollingLeaves · 03/04/2024 14:44

TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 14:37

Lawsuits are costing ALL of us a fortune.

Unless you subscribe to the Christian Fundie Bux Conspiracy Theory…

Yes, ridiculous laws and lobby groups have created legal and social havoc for women and children, and now women, who have so much less money in the first place have to pay extortionate amounts to try to restore reason.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 03/04/2024 14:46

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 11:28

It is not misinformation to say she has links to the far right. I personally don't really care, apart from I find it quite interesting that stating that fact causes absolute uproar on here.

You don't like that she has those links. And you are arguing the toss by asking endless questions, but by doing so you are setting yourself up as the ultimate arbiter.

It's pretty obvious and pretty tedious now. I don't have to assuage your cognitive dissonance for you.

It is not misinformation to say she has links to the far right.

I really didn’t want to do this as I hate discussing things with swirly fog BUT after being on this site for a while NOBODY has proved thosefar right links of hers. Either here or elsewhere. The kind of links that would be evidence in a police or solicitor statement would be fine, just not the "oh someone, somewhere, said something". So let's have the real proof please. I'm listening.

ArabellaScott · 03/04/2024 14:47

TathingScinsel · 03/04/2024 14:33

HnH is a company with a separate charitable trust (often done for tax purposes).

It's not just for tax. A charity is limited in how much political involvement and lobbying it can have, so many NGOs (Greenpeace, Amnesty, etc) are not charities, although they often have a charitable wing.

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 15:16

Datun · 03/04/2024 13:15

Well just be clear then.

Do you, personally, agree with those people that she associates with the far right?

Or not?

It's my opinion that you keep hiding behind other people statements, so you can attempt a bit of plausible deniability. Which obviously only works in your head.

But now you've got the chance to make your deniability more than plausible, you can make it definite.

Do you, personally, agree with those people that she associates with the far right?

How on earth would I know for sure who she does or doesn't associate with? I don't know any of these people. I can't answer that Confused

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 15:20

Datun · 03/04/2024 14:05

See that's what I mean.

You pretend that unless you said it, you can have no concept of it.

You have no idea that, when women say they are happy for her to spend their money on champagne, that they meant it.

As a concept, there's not enough information in that sentence for you to have 'any idea' about what it means.

This is why your contribution to these threads are nonsense.

It's my opinion that you just like to have a bit of an argument, by pretending words don't mean what they do, that none of these opinions that you constantly quote are really yours, and assuming they are, reflects on the person reading your posts, rather than you who is writing them.

It must take you for fucking ever to have a conversation in real life

No, I don't think that what a subset of women say is in any way representative of what all women would do.

I personally don't care if you want to send KJK champagne to bath in or whatever. Knock yourself out.

It's entirely irrelevant as to what proportion of her income she gets from women who think they are donating to "free speech". The way she does her business means that isn't transparent. That bothers me. It doesn't bother you. We are both entitled to an opinion.

Datun · 03/04/2024 15:22

How on earth would I know for sure who she does or doesn't associate with? I don't know any of these people. I can't answer that

So that would have to be a no.

If you don't know any of them, and you don't know what's going on, you can't possibly agree that it's a fact that she associates with them.

Just so we're clear, going forward, you, personally, don't have enough information to agree that's the case.

Would you agree that statement is accurate.

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 15:34

PurpleSparkledPixie · 03/04/2024 14:46

It is not misinformation to say she has links to the far right.

I really didn’t want to do this as I hate discussing things with swirly fog BUT after being on this site for a while NOBODY has proved thosefar right links of hers. Either here or elsewhere. The kind of links that would be evidence in a police or solicitor statement would be fine, just not the "oh someone, somewhere, said something". So let's have the real proof please. I'm listening.

"Links" is a vague, none specific word which is probably why you haven't seen anything you think is proof.

She says far right things (e.g. that stuff OldCrone helpfully bolded upthread). She gives interviews on shows hosted by people like Richie Allen, Jordan Peterson and Laurence Fox. Neo nazis attend her rallies and livestream her content. To me those can be described as "links". To you maybe they can't.

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