KJK’s insane rant

[Dontblameitonsunshine]

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

@DadJoke she's not a racist. Spend some time listening to her. This is just a lie. She spoke up for the groomed girls of Rotherham.

It's perfectly possible to make reasoned criticism of someone else's output without smearing, insulting, and maligning them.

It’s possible - if reasoned criticism is what the purpose of the thread is.

But there can be all sorts of motivations for social media posts.

In an election year there may be different motivations for social media posts than in a non-election year.

This Activism and Medicine used to be two different beasts. You don't have to scrape too far down these days to find promoting an ideology that should be far, far away from medicine posted by* *@AlisonDonut

A person should be able to question doctors and understand their answers. Years ago the role of a doctor was primarily not to prescribe anything unless absolutely necessary. There was a shift at a point in time where this changed. Probably concurrent with wider internet access. But doctors are fallible humans just like the rest of us. Scientists too!

"It's perfectly possible to make reasoned criticism of someone else's output without smearing, insulting, and maligning them."

It most certainly is.

The core threat to children is the captured doctors. And they weren't at the conference.

(I do wonder how they converged on early transitioning as any sort of answer, because it's not ideal even on its own terms. A fully developed body is much easier to work with. Why no debate around this?)

Re: why should we stop them? There are many possible responses here. Adults transitioning is not neutral to a society of human beings comprising males and females. However, previously transitioned adults were largely welcomed and supported in our society. The recent increase in transitioned adults has raised questions, and concerns for others. This is a reason to have an open discussion about this. It is not just about the transitioned adult. The way we all behave will impact on those around us.

It's up to the medics to do some hard science and then establish the policy that does least harm.

The first child gender clinic was started sometime in the late 1980s, wasnt it? The medics have had that long to do some hard science and establish policy, instead they watched as the numbers grew and decided to give out puberty blockers. The only thing they established was a path to surgery and a life time on cross sex hormones.

Why should we trust them now? What are they going to find now that they didnt find before? A different path to adult transition once they are 18?

The medical profession could do a lot to gain public confidence by defining what they think they are treating, and showing us how they diagnosis it.

Because if its only 14 years old girls telling them theyve always felt like a boy, they need to come up with something more.

Is it a circular issue where evidence gathering on children would have been unethical at a certain point in time, because obviously society would frown on this as exploitation. There needed to be enough of a tipping point of youth indoctrinated into this ideology to provide an evidence base. By which point there is a generation of damaged youth and no going back. It is what I see outside looking in .

Claiming that KJK is racist is just another dog-whistle like saying she’s funded by the right wing. Doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny but it gets chucked out again and again anyway by those who are presumably hoping that if you fling enough mud some of it will stick.

Same old shit,different thread.

Yes this. I imagine there may be quite a few attempts to stop Party of Women getting any political traction.

I've spent too much time listening to her. I quote tweets to you in which she was incontrovertibly racist - she has since deleted them. Other gender critical people agreed. Do you honestly think those tweets aren't racist?

"There are pockets of the city where the culture isn't British" - it's pure Tommy Robinson.

This is what WPUK said:

Posie Parker will no longer be speaking at our Cornwall meeting as we object to her stated views on race and religion. We do not agree that this reflects a feminist position. Our aims are to discuss issues of concern around sex and gender and the GRA. We want to focus on this in a respectful and considered way.
We are very conscious of how sex, class and race intersect to oppress women and we want to be clear that we are fighting for women, whatever personal choices they make, to have their rights upheld under law.
We are also aware that many women of colour feel unable to enter this debate for fear of being caricatured as illiberal by a society which already alienates and discriminates against them.
We reject any generalisations or misrepresentations of Muslims & other faith groups and we think this contributes to the alienation of these communities from the public discourse.
We are a single focus campaign working within a short time-frame. We hold different perspectives on a number of issues but we are united in our determination to support women to have a voice on the GRA and are working to increase the inclusivity of our meetings.
We intend to stay focussed on our five demands and bring as many women from diverse communities into the campaign as possible.

Nah, I'm just not interested in someone who makes a thread (on the feminist board) to attempt to pillory or insult a woman behind her back
People do that all the time on here though, I never see "GC" people complaining then?
Emma Watson
Judy Blume
To name but two Ive seen on here lately
Always descends into but "well I thought she was a shit actor anyway" as if her acting skills have anything to do with anything.

This link was posted earlier, but you seem not to have read it.
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie

Are you willing to read about both sides before drawing conclusions, or do you just take one biased viewpoint and stick to it?

Well, this is a whole later generation of medics, who have to deal with the current generation of 'patients' and manage the perceptions of future possible 'patients'. They had limited choice about the hand they've been dealt. Maybe KJK's invective will remind them that there's a whole world of adverse public opinion outside the conference hall. Or maybe we need more detransitioner law suits.

What we need to do is to keep questioning the medics who jump on the next bandwagon to try and make sure they don't just reinvent WPATH 2.0.

If the medics charged with dealing with kids cannot take criticism then what hope when they are then infiltrated and moved back in the direction of medication?

They could well learn from her on how to say no.

It’s noticeable that WPUK say they disagree with her views. They did not say “She’s a racist”.

I don’t disagree with some of the things KJK says on the matters screenshotted above. Some cultures DO have shit attitudes towards women, and some people from those cultures live here in the UK. The child sex abuse scandals - whether Rotherham, Oxford or wherever - were largely carried out by men of a certain cultural background. Where I live, those I see dealing drugs are all - and I mean ALL - of a particular ethnic background.

We might not like it to be said, but it doesn’t make it less true.

If I remember correctly they withdrew this after she queried why they make little girls cover up.

I agree with vast majority of everything KJK is saying here. However, phrases like "simpering morons" (doctors) and "moronic parents" are not helpful. At all.

Gender dysphoria is predicated on a belief. There are people who genuinely believe that everyone has a gender identity. There are also people who haven't really thought that deeply and believe it "kind of makes sense" so must be true. I would bet that most people fall in to the latter category.

Belief is an incredibly powerful thing. It makes (seemingly) ordinary people do bonkers stuff. Gender identity belief goes from entry point to bonkers pretty much immediately. For other beliefs, it's more gradual e.g. Christians and Muslims saying prayers to their gods seems odd to me (as an atheist) but harmless, as it doesn't affect me, other than the fact that I avoid booking meetings at lunch time on Fridays where I need to speak to any Muslim team members. But when David Koresh convinced a whole load of people to die in the name of Christ in Waco or the Manchester Arena suicide bomber presumably thought killing lots of people gave him access to a paradise etc, that's clearly way too far by most people's standards.

When calling out the clearly obvious harms, some people might choose to say "there is no God/Allah, what on earth are you doing?" others might accept that these people hold a belief and choose to challenge the impact of the extremes of the belief i.e. let the belief exist. In gender identity belief, gender dysphoria is real to gender identity believers. It needs unpicking and FWIW I am in agreement with KJK on the fact that it is always something else mental health related. There are trans(-identified) people who say the same thing e.g. Blaire White, Buck Angel.

All approaches to stopping the harm are valid as long as there is no compromise. Blaire White and Buck Angel both say they wish that their distress could have been addressed without transition. Clearly their belief in their gender identity, alongside their distress was too deep. Perhaps they could have had better care and been challenged. Blaire asks this rhetorically and openly.
Here's a good video which covers all this:

I'm posting this here with a rhetorical question: would I have been listened to if I hadn't gone in as one of the "polite people"?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenage-gender-identity-crisis/

KJK is right to be proud of LWS and everyone who attends and speaks.
I'm proud of everyone in my story above, particularly the CAMHS management staff who came to their own conclusions (with a LOT of persuasive, polite and firm correspondence - and a Subject Access Request) for being a part of helping children like my daughter. The conversation is still ongoing. It's slower and it's "polite" but it's continuously moving in the right direction.

If approaching it more "circuitously" makes me not on the "same team", I would consider that a missed opportunity to aim for a common goal. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen such an ultimatum. I just scroll past that kind of thing now but on this particular subject - doctors who are working in captured organisations on the front line of this - I can't.

For the record, I feel angry too about all of this. Very. If my approach makes me a Simpering Moron, so be it.

There is no compromise. No child or vulnerable young person should ever be put through this. This medical scandal is abhorrent. But there are different ways to reach that goal. We need the KJKs but we also need the "great and the good" getting there. These doctors were brave just attending the conference.

KJK is an incredibly brave lady. She's phenomenal. The NZ story towards the end is very powerful and puts the level of personal risk that she faces in perspective.

(Edited to say towards the end instead of at the end re the NZ story)

AlisonDonut
What we need to do is to keep questioning the medics who jump on the next bandwagon to try and make sure they don't just reinvent WPATH 2.0.

If the medics charged with dealing with kids cannot take criticism then what hope when they are then infiltrated and moved back in the direction of medication?

Exactly this - the fact that safeguarding has been so easily undermined in some sectors, and whistle blowers are too afraid to speak out at the time or harassed if they did, should be grounds for an urgent review.

this thread is full of people criticising the medics who went along and participated. Of course she’s undermined the work of Can sg - and I’m annoyed she’s done that without looking at what their work actually is. Many members have been busy fighting the genderborg long before KJK appeared.

“Simpering idiots” is not collaborative langauge.

Konstantin Kisin says these things too. Is he racist as well?

You did point it out? Therefore you can point it out.

And we are free to agree, disagree ,ask you to qualify what you put.
Thats how freedom of speech works.

Transitioning

We should stop calling it this, we should use accurate language - ‘using presentation, surgery and drugs to adopt a facsimile of the opposite sex’.