AntiSocial on Radio 4 started right now (Friday lunchtime) on misgendering

[nauticant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001xfw6

The programme consistently fails to meaningfully engage with trans.

They still haven’t mentioned that in Kennedy’s view, women includes men

I suggest complaining to the BBC re the lack of balance, time to speak etc. and being sure to copy in Tim Davie, or send him a copy. Every time.

Jane certainly is dim - he’s got that right

Susan from FWS pointed out that the Scottish Hate Crime legislation expressly omits women but includes cross-dressing men. Hamlin asked about this and was unable to process what he'd heard.

And that's it. An unclear muddled mess.

I found that really hard to follow.

I hardly ever listen to anything like this but it’s so waffly and missing crucial points. It’s very hard on Susan Smith when everyone else is so uninformed. Where are the other people with incisive minds?

I can’t decide whether the presenter is genuinely dim, scared or just is bemused because he doesn’t care.

Hamlin….umm umm. Nothing to see here. Pretend , deny, waffle.

.

Misgendering compared with flashing.

That's just blatantly trolling women.

In the absence of an argument, I'm not sure what it is that Jane disagrees with. The example outlined by Susan clearly does treats women differently from men.

In their world, a woman saying "help, there's a man there with his cock out" could be equivalent to the man having his cock out.

I think Jane actually agreed with Susan on that. But said ‘oh well I don’t agree with that. I mean I agree with you.’

I think so many people haven’t heard what women are saying they are hearing it for the first time and can’t process it.

Yes, he seemed not to care. Didn't see the relevance. Unsurprisingly.

But the additional relevance is not being able to complain about men enacting their fetish in public.

TRAs have done one hell of a fucking number in Scotland.

Can I be lazy and ask for email addresses?

Jane was trying to say misgendering needs to be recorded in case it’s indicative of escalating hate crimes, in the same way flashing is recorded in case it’s escalate to ‘proper crime’.

Totally thinking ‘some flashers are just being a bit silly on a night out, whereas others are on their way to being sex offenders’.

All flashers are sex criminals.

imagine if they recorded ‘men who manhandle women’. I don’t give a fuck if you’re a nice guy who isn’t working your way up to pinching my bum or grabbing my boob. Hands to yourself, matey.

[email protected]

Sent an email the other day and got a response that said it had been received.

Hamlin sounds like someone who has been randomly stopped outside the Co-op and had a microphone thrust at them for a vox pop. Their entire argument has been 'why can't people just be nice?' which seems woefully inadequate for a programme identifying as an in-depth discussion of a complex issue on Radio 4. Embarrassing.

The reason for copying in Tim Davie, the current Director General of the BBC, for anyone unaware, is that he was questioned at a parliamentary DCMS committee the other day, and he dismissed women's views because he'd personally only received "a handful of emails".

Well I suppose the man with his cock out can claim that his victim has committed a hate crime in that it might have been her cock or fae's cock as opposed to his, or that he has deeply hurt feelings that there he/she/fae/miaow were, innocently helicoptering their cock about and she made him feel bad by getting upset/mentioning it.

Then the police officer recording it can record how their own feelings were deeply hurt by having to listen to all this twattery, and send both of them to the ducking stool.

I wonder where Scotland plan to build the all the prisons they're going to need to hold all these women criminals? Has anyone suggested to them bringing back hard labour and picking oakum? And has anyone yet designed the SNP proper Witchfinder Hats?

Then the police officer recording it can record how their feelings were deeply hurt by having to listen to all this twattery, and send both of them to the ducking stool.

Nearly, but I suggest only one of them would get sent to the ducking stool, and we all know which.

The job descriptions of police officers in Scotland will also need to change a bit from 'are you keen to prevent crime and protect the public' to 'are you keen to spend your life listening to primary school level whining about he said/she said twitter spats'.

To be fair two of the male voices just blended into one and I was trying to work out which male voice was 'Jane' and ended up losing track.

Susan made a valiant attempt to get across that “misgendering” is not a “mistake” but can just be being truthful, and gave a good example of how it distorts women’s representation.

The framing of misgendering as a mistake or “getting it wrong” is really frustrating. Somehow most people (including me up to a couple of years ago) have been persuaded to go along with this concept without even noticing, and it’s so embedded now that it’s really difficult to push back against.

"India has a gender recognition certificate..."
Any women out there with a gender recognition certificate?

I gave up on it. Had the potential to be useful but turned out to be 3 peoples opinions against one when I turned it off.

Last time I complained, I noticed that they were making the complaint form longer and more onerous and asking for more personal details.

Making it easier for the witch finders.

Looking up witch finders (who were supported by female assistances who did the pricking so nothing new there), this seemed relevant to our discussions:

Witches then became heretics to Gender Ideologists Christianity, which became the greatest of their crimes and sins. Within Scotland and possibly England under Labour continental and Roman Law witchcraft was crimen exceptum: a crime so foul that all normal legal procedures were amended to force their silence and compel their speech superseded.