If you're a man, whatever you feel is what it feels like to be a man

[literalviolence]

No? Everything else is a logical fallacy. So there's no such thing as a man 'feeling like a woman' - they are in fact feeling like a man. There's no need for all men to feel the same.

Oh oh oh but you don't know their chromosomes! they could be intersex! I once heard about a person who was born without any genitals so that means they are neither male or female
And on and on and on 🥱

Oh oh oh but you don't know their chromosomes!

A TRA friend once told me with supreme confidence that XX people have been known to impregnate XY people and that's why the Forstater result was wrong.

@VenetiaHallisWellPosh said
"I mean, as a woman with a vagina, I am disadvantaged socially, legally and financially."
As an older woman I seethe about the differences in treatment - job opportunities, social expectations etc. I experienced when younger - and still today. But this is nothing compared to the appalling degredation that women in other countries experience. Can someone explain to me why we aren't attempting to help women around the world arm themselves, annihilate the male bullies that are in power and bring some sanity to the world?

If you ever have a spare month or two (and haven't done so already) you might enjoy.diving down the doctrinal rabbit hole of what exactly it is that gets reincarnated in Buddhism.

I agree OP.

The strange thing is how so many seem to think that wearing a dress will prove that they are a woman. A fancy dress is just that, a fancy dress outfit. Dressing up as Long John Silver doesn’t make you a pirate, and cutting off your leg doesn’t make you a better pirate because, shock news, you weren’t a pirate in the first place.

One man telling another man that he's not a man

Kind of reminds me of this, in a way:

For those who are struggling to understand the complexity of how a man can legitimately feel like a woman, this short documentary may well help you a lot:

It doesn't feel like anything to be a man - like others have said, one just is. There is cultural stuff attached to it and, in general, certain physical advantages, but that's it.

Thanks. This one needs to be on repeat.

'A mortgage company is interested in how many years you're likely to be alive, it doesn't matter what age it says'.

Hmm. If only there were some sort of analogy for that situation, in which reality matters more than a statement of feelings or something written on a piece of paper.

Talk about late to the party.

I don’t understand the relevance when people ask how you would feel if you woke up one day in a different body.

I get it’s a thought experiment, but trans people haven’t just woken up one day with a different body and want the old one back, they want to be totally physically different from what they’ve always known. And presumably if they donate up in an opposite sex body theyd be happy?

They don't necessarily want to be totally physically different from what they’ve always known. Most trans-identifying people make very few changes to their bodies - if any.

In many cases it is simply that they claim an inner feeling of being the opposite sex. Hence things like 'girl dick'.

That's hilarious! the very obviously TW could not see the parallels with the offensive nonsense of their own argument!

Well, SHIT!
That’s disappointing.

Off to cancer amputation surgery and return parrot to the shop immediately.

It's not confined just to feelings.
Whatever you dress like is 'dressing like a man', because you're a man and that's how you dress.
However you choose to live is 'living like a man' because you're a man and that's how you're living.
Any other definition requires the imposition of restrictive gender stereotypes that we've spent decades attempting to overturn.

There isn't any relevance because people don't wake up in different bodies except in science fiction. It doesn't happen.

You might as well ask what preparations the government has made for the event of the UK being attacked by teddy bears.

Oh, please keep the parrot. You can teach her to say stuff like “I love JKR” and “ A woman is an adult human female.”

oops for edit!

Exactly. I am a woman because I am female, so any way I behave, dress, think, feel, etc is feminine by definition. I am not female because I follow the restrictive gender stereotypes society deems to be feminine (which I don't anyway!)

Thanks. Yes. An old Buddhist friend used to tell me always to think of "rebirth" rather than "reincarnation".

Lots of interesting avenues with anatta, for sure. One day ... (or, as you say, month or two.)

There are some crossovers. Here's a nice one from 1978: CONCEPTIONS OF THE SELF IN WITTGENSTEIN, HUME, AND BUDDHISM

Absolutely correct

I've seen that clip before. But it hasn't aged well. Jane Fae pretending that there is some kind of well established biological evidence, which there isn't. And being described as a feminist in the subtitle 😁

This is the 'feminist' who has spent their adult life campaigning to make sickening, extreme pornography legal, and to lower the legal age of the participants.

Little wonder they didn't want participants to be able to identify their own age!!

Interestingly, it does go to show how far we've come. I don't think anyone watching that now wouldn't see through it all, instantly.

Agreed! Thank you OP, this is the most satisfying and succinct way of expressing this fallacy of our times I have seen! 👏👏👏

I think Shania Twain might disagree with you

On a serious note, the problem isn't a person's understanding of biology, it's that our culture doesn't define people solely on their biology. Their body sure, but a person is more than their body, and anything that doesn't fit is viewed as "different". If you feel that's not you, personally, don't confuse your own views with our culture as a whole. Even people "who don't care" or "accept" difference carry some this baggage. Everyone makes use of heuristics to understand the world, including ones that when consciously evaluation don't fit their professed values 🤷‍♂️

Gender identity wasn't born in a vacuum, it draws inspiration from pre-existing ideas the persist on both sides of the conversation