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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If you're a man, whatever you feel is what it feels like to be a man

112 replies

literalviolence · 22/03/2024 10:40

No? Everything else is a logical fallacy. So there's no such thing as a man 'feeling like a woman' - they are in fact feeling like a man. There's no need for all men to feel the same.

OP posts:
RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 22/03/2024 12:15

Helleofabore · 22/03/2024 11:57

Thanks OP. I am very much interested in seeing a man explain all this to us. I will wait patiently... and yes .... I have wine!

Unfortunately I can’t explain it at all. We can’t decide “who we are” physically - we are what we are, or we artificially alter what we are, and become … what we always were, but altered artificially. I have had to have surgery to make part of me function again following an accident, which makes me what I was before the accident but with a little weakness and scarring. That is now part of my “identity”, and I have to live with the fact that it has left me very slightly disabled.

Hormone treatment and “sex reassignment” surgery can only make someone an artificially altered version of what they always were. At one time, I thought that perhaps this could give someone characteristics equivalent to those of some people with DSDs, but now I’m uncomfortable with that framing. But, like people with a DSD, they remain one sex or the other; they are only cosmetically altered.

Sorry, I have probably fallen into mansplaining mode, albeit in a gender critical way!

BIWI · 22/03/2024 12:17

Froodwithatowel · 22/03/2024 10:58

I'm really sorry, but we need a little chat about the Easter Bunny too. You may need wine.

... never mind the Tooth Fairy

JellySaurus · 22/03/2024 12:26

I remember very well what it felt like to be a girl who didn't fit in with all the other girls. I remember very well my bewilderment at their talk of boys and make up and all those other things that teenage girls talk about, and my isolation when I could not join in. Their blank looks and the change in the conversation if I mentioned my latest Airfix model.

I described myself as having a boy's brain in a girl's body.

But I knew throughout that I was a girl, and, later, a woman. Once I learned to celebrate my difference, found my own tribe of geeks, found my sexual awakening and found a man who loves me as I am, I found that I was still the same person - but happier.

Nowadays I would likely have been sucked in by the trans ideology. But I still wouldn't know what it is to be a man. I know what it is to be a woman who does not conform to stereotypes. I know what it is to be a woman who has accepted and embraced being different.

VeryQuaintIrene · 22/03/2024 12:40

@JellySaurus 100 times this. Great post and I feel the same.

1dayatatime · 22/03/2024 12:42

Throughout history there has always been "masculine women" and "feminine men". This didn't mean that they changed from women to men or vice versa.

What is the issue here is that there are masculine women who are claiming that because they have masculine attributes or see themselves as masculine that they physically have become a man and feminine men that because they have feminine attributes or see themselves as feminine that they have physically become women.

No they are not, they are just masculine women and feminine men and clearly there is absolutely nothing wrong in this. I believe we are all on a spectrum of masculinity and feminine but it doesn't change the underlying biology making men women and women men.

negeme · 22/03/2024 12:42

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 22/03/2024 11:27

Heh. You'll get people tell you that you can't even imagine the pain of being
in the wrong-sex body because you're in the right-sex body.

I've even seen people ask, how would you feel if (horror of horrors!) you woke
up tomorrow in a male body? Wouldn't you feel all wrong and terrible?

Actually no. If someone offered me the chance to wake up tomorrow in an average-ish mid-20s male body rather than my current average-ish mid-60s female one I'd bite their arm off. And even if it wasn't perfect I'm sure I'd learn to adapt to any weird maleness same as I learned to adapt to a female body.

About 'waking up tomorrow in a male body'.

Of course, if you're a woman, it isn't possible for you to wake up tomorrow in a male body.

But this impossibility isn't just empirical or scientific: it isn't just that, as it were, science isn't sufficiently advanced yet, but that one day it might happen. No: the impossibility is logical. Whatever advances are made by science and technology, it could never be possible.

Why so? -Because nothing would count as you - a woman - waking up in a man's body. Whoever that is, there under the duvet, waking in a man's body (that man, in other words), it cannot - could not - be you, because you are a woman.

Human beings are essentially embodied. And individuals humans are related essentially to their individual physical bodies.

Say it again: if you are a woman, no matter who it is waking up tomorrow with a male body, it cannot - and could not - be you.

[--Even René Descartes, for all his mind/body dualism, was aware of this. "I am not merely present in my body as a sailor is present in a ship," he said, "... I and the body form a unit." (See his Meditation VI ... you may find his reasons interesting, too ...)

--And (just one more 'even' ...) even Christian belief, as expressed for instance in the Creed, requires "The Resurrection of the Body" at the end of life on earth. -Why? Because without your body (yes, that physical thing!), it wouldn't be you enjoying the advantages of Paradise (it wouldn't actually be anything ... but that's maybe enough metaphysics ...)]

[Just to be clear ... I am neither Cartesian nor Christian. Just I want to put to rest the nonsense about 'born/waking-up in the wrong body' and to point out the independence of its nonsensicality from denial of dualism or even of immortality.]

Froodwithatowel · 22/03/2024 13:01

Yes.

It's just another mad fantasy.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 22/03/2024 13:06

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic if there's one thing I think men are fully allowed to mansplain it's being a man!

literalviolence · 22/03/2024 13:38

Sounds like we are all in agreement! I'd be interested for someone who supports gender ideology to logically explain the complete opposite.

OP posts:
Balloonhearts · 22/03/2024 13:40

See I said this and got told I was a TERF and should get raped to death. But these 'women' are harmless, right, just want to mind their own business.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 22/03/2024 13:43

negeme · 22/03/2024 12:42

About 'waking up tomorrow in a male body'.

Of course, if you're a woman, it isn't possible for you to wake up tomorrow in a male body.

But this impossibility isn't just empirical or scientific: it isn't just that, as it were, science isn't sufficiently advanced yet, but that one day it might happen. No: the impossibility is logical. Whatever advances are made by science and technology, it could never be possible.

Why so? -Because nothing would count as you - a woman - waking up in a man's body. Whoever that is, there under the duvet, waking in a man's body (that man, in other words), it cannot - could not - be you, because you are a woman.

Human beings are essentially embodied. And individuals humans are related essentially to their individual physical bodies.

Say it again: if you are a woman, no matter who it is waking up tomorrow with a male body, it cannot - and could not - be you.

[--Even René Descartes, for all his mind/body dualism, was aware of this. "I am not merely present in my body as a sailor is present in a ship," he said, "... I and the body form a unit." (See his Meditation VI ... you may find his reasons interesting, too ...)

--And (just one more 'even' ...) even Christian belief, as expressed for instance in the Creed, requires "The Resurrection of the Body" at the end of life on earth. -Why? Because without your body (yes, that physical thing!), it wouldn't be you enjoying the advantages of Paradise (it wouldn't actually be anything ... but that's maybe enough metaphysics ...)]

[Just to be clear ... I am neither Cartesian nor Christian. Just I want to put to rest the nonsense about 'born/waking-up in the wrong body' and to point out the independence of its nonsensicality from denial of dualism or even of immortality.]

Hm, I'm not sure if I altogether agree with that but I don't have enough philosophy to get into it. It was only a thought experiment. I have some kind of intuition about having a body that is functionally and structurally male/masculine or female/feminine and that's all I meant.

ispavedwithgoodintentions · 22/03/2024 13:47

Just like "having a male brain" you'd have to be a man.... BY DEFINITION. Thinking a man might have a female brain is completely backwards thinking.

How would a man with a co-called female brain regulate his hormones etc... oh I know, like a man....

Helleofabore · 22/03/2024 14:00

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 22/03/2024 12:15

Unfortunately I can’t explain it at all. We can’t decide “who we are” physically - we are what we are, or we artificially alter what we are, and become … what we always were, but altered artificially. I have had to have surgery to make part of me function again following an accident, which makes me what I was before the accident but with a little weakness and scarring. That is now part of my “identity”, and I have to live with the fact that it has left me very slightly disabled.

Hormone treatment and “sex reassignment” surgery can only make someone an artificially altered version of what they always were. At one time, I thought that perhaps this could give someone characteristics equivalent to those of some people with DSDs, but now I’m uncomfortable with that framing. But, like people with a DSD, they remain one sex or the other; they are only cosmetically altered.

Sorry, I have probably fallen into mansplaining mode, albeit in a gender critical way!

Would you like a glass of rose or red wine (I have both ... not in the same glass obvs)? Would that help?

Binglebong · 22/03/2024 14:18

Ditto. Also a reduction I romance frauds and if I day something it doesn't get shouted down in the same way as an obvious woman would.

I am very careful when replying in to women though as I know saying something as a women (eg "that fit is great and enhances your figure") can come over one way from a female but appears creepy or lecherous from a man.

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2024 14:31

GrumpyPanda · 22/03/2024 12:06

I've been a man on Facebook almost since the start. Messes with their advertising algorithms.

Facebook thinks I'm a male born in 1950.

This may prove interesting if I am long lived.

EmpressaurusOfTheScathingTinsel · 22/03/2024 14:36

Twitter assumed my work account was male because I have a techy job.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 22/03/2024 15:01

Helleofabore · 22/03/2024 14:00

Would you like a glass of rose or red wine (I have both ... not in the same glass obvs)? Would that help?

Edited

Beer please, if that’s convenient. Got to stick to the stereotypes, or I’ll have to start identifying as a woman.

Helleofabore · 22/03/2024 15:15

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 22/03/2024 15:01

Beer please, if that’s convenient. Got to stick to the stereotypes, or I’ll have to start identifying as a woman.

Well then.... I will have to go and ask my husband about beer.... 😉

Boiledbeetle · 22/03/2024 15:26

Froodwithatowel · 22/03/2024 10:58

I'm really sorry, but we need a little chat about the Easter Bunny too. You may need wine.

La La La GIF by Isola dei Famosi

I do not want to know about the Easter Bunny.

The Easter Bunny lives!!!!!!!

🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇

TheCadoganArms · 22/03/2024 16:02

Froodwithatowel · 22/03/2024 10:58

I'm really sorry, but we need a little chat about the Easter Bunny too. You may need wine.

The Office Reaction GIF

.

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2024 16:09
Bunny GIF

It's fine. Here's the Easter bunny. The big secret is there are two of them, that's all.

Froodwithatowel · 22/03/2024 16:10

It's a fair cop. I'm truthing in ways that are wrecking people's happy fantasies. <holds out wrists> I'll come quietly while I speed dial Ben's wren.

Boiledbeetle · 22/03/2024 17:35

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2024 16:09

It's fine. Here's the Easter bunny. The big secret is there are two of them, that's all.

Sad Bunny GIF by Peter Rabbit Movie

oh thank God

2 you said. Are you sure? There seems to be four now!

But you know what they say about bunnies!

EnglishLady02 · 22/03/2024 19:20

IcakethereforeIam · 22/03/2024 10:48

At best I suppose a man who feels like a woman is in fact a man who think he feels like a woman. But he is still and will always be a man.

Well, there's a lot of women out there constantly saying "men are not afraid of this... " men don't have to worry about that..." as if they know everything about the experience of the opposite gender.

IcakethereforeIam · 22/03/2024 19:28
Angry Natural World GIF by BBC Earth

Oh look!