Yes! Colleague is NOT CIS!

[Babysharkdoodoodood]

Another female colleague (sgt) asked me what a cis woman is, as she'd been referred to as such. I explained that it's a made up construct etc etc etc

She exclaimed ' But I'm a woman. Not Cis or whatever.'

Getting there slowly but surely.

I, for one, accept the term "non-man" in respect of our benevolent overlords.

You'll be something ambitious in the Green Party then @WitchyWitcherson ? 😙

Oh no it's real, and in offices everywhere. [re pronouns]

Yes, it's everywhere. And the most depressing place I see it? Schools and youth charities.

Exactly this.

@PaterPower
(What a strange username for someone who belongs to the groups that are apparently out to 'cancel' women?)

I met my first trans woman in 1979

Go to other cultures in the World and trans men and women have been accepted throughout history.

There's no indoctrination. Just because you don't approve doesn't make it any less real.

What do you mean when you say 'trans'?

We all accept that there are some males and females that prefer living their life presenting as the opposite sex. Nobody is denying that, nobody wants to erase their existance.

But we won't go along with the charade and accept them into our sex-segragated spaces because those sex-segragated spaces were segragated for reasons. Sex-segragated spaces exist in all cultures around the world too, even in the ones that have allowed 'trans people' (as you put it, they might not see it that way, often it's a third distinct gender) to 'exist'.

The indoctrination comes with the thought terminating cliches such as TWAW, "Just be kind", "XYZ is transphobia!", "Misgendering is genocide" etc. etc.

If trans people just want to exist, and go about their daily lives, crack the fuck on.

But it's not about that, it's blind subservience, non-questioning, affirm-with-no question indoctrination. It's the medicalisation of kids and vulnerable adults, the invasion of women's hard won spaces and rights, eroding of boundaries through extended Queer Theory and crossover with (some) aspects of transness with fetishism.

p.s. if we're going with "met my first transwoman".

I went to uni with a now non-binary transman.

I lived with a different transman for two years, who held frequent parties and invited their trans friends round who I spent many a merry evening with.

One of my neighbours is a transwoman who has a book written about her.

I walk my dog around the same area as a transwoman who walks their dogs too.

(Just in case these anecdotes give any more weight to my argument?!)

I agree.

Saying that using the term ‘cis’ is just being polite and kind is actually a perfidious way of controlling and compelling speech.

Yes, this. People are free to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't force me to participate in their beliefs, and call me a bigot if I won't.

At the centre of this debate is the assumption that one set of beliefs (trans) should be uniquely privileged over all others. That is not OK.

@baileybrosbuildingandloan

"Go to other cultures in the World and trans men and women have been accepted throughout history."

Which cultures specifically are you referring to, and can you explain how transmen and transwomen have been "accepted" throughout history. Thanks.

What ‘group’ do I belong to which seeks to “cancel women?!” Money’s a little tight at the moment, so if you could clear it up for me I’ll make sure I stop the direct debit 🙄

I’m aware that transwomen (and transmen for that matter - always coming in as an afterthought… I wonder why?) exist. It would have been hard to miss for anybody exposed to SM, or workplace EDI sessions, over the last ten years or so.

And, like you, I’ve met a few TW IRL. An ex work colleague, a few acquaintances and the odd one in the supermarket. Some were obviously ‘trying’ and some were more like the Spanish ‘Mum of four,’ making few discernible attempts to ‘transition’

Whatever the level of ‘effort’ they put in, transwomen are not women; the ‘cis’ prefix is both unnecessary and heavily loaded.

Go to other cultures in the World and trans men and women have been accepted throughout history.

There's no indoctrination. Just because you don't approve doesn't make it any less real.

Why is there always this breakneck rush to assert the existence of trans people? The thread isnot questioning whether they exist. It's questioning whether we all need to define ourselves as not being them.

Are you out to cancel women, @PaterPower ?
I have an issue with that...

Does not trans mean altering the body to 'become' a man or woman, having been born with the attributes of the other sex. What has been accepted forever around the world is that some men dress and live their lives as women and some women dress and live their lives as men. Apart from anything else the surgical skills necessary have not been around for long enough for it to have been possible except in the very recent past.

What point are you trying to make?

I had that argument with a transman who insisted on calling me a cis woman. I said that to me, it seemed like he wasn't respecting my right to be called what I chose ie woman, and would he thus take offence if I called him a her instead? (I should note I first knew him as a her). It's a non argument now, he would call me a woman. Not cis. 😆

Wondering how I live my life as a women ?

The only way is to be born female and then proceed to live your life!

Not born with the attributes of the other sex, conceived as the opposite sex. The physical attributes follow the sex you are conceived as. Development can go wrong or be stunted, but males develop along one pathway and females along a separate, parallel one. No merging or crossover.

And although "trans" doesn't seem to have a clear meaning, nobody has to do anything to their body to consider themself "trans".

As soon as we start gatekeeping trans, it kind of becomes a beauty contest, doesn't it?

I hate beauty contests, they're complete bullshit and nobody should be telling someone 'you're not pretty enough (or you don't pass enough) to get this, you don't get it'.

People like India W love beauty contests because IW is convinced that IW wins the beauty contest and therefore they're great. IW then gets to tell other people they didn't win the beauty contest (cf previous comments galore, IWs twitter history is quite something).

I've visited Uluru. Aboriginal people have lived there for tens of thousands of years. There is a sacred woman's area, where men are Forbidden, virtually on pain of death, and vice versa.

There didn't seem to be any sex confusion or transition there.

Really?! Is there something in the air today?

I’m very glad to hear you’d have an issue with anyone trying to ‘cancel’ women (although what does ‘cancel’ mean to you in this context..? Genuine question).

Transwomen aren’t women though. Cis is both an unnecessary and loaded term when used as a prefix to the word woman/women.

Okay, I'm getting confused here. A PP said "What a strange username for someone who belongs to the groups that are apparently out to 'cancel' women?"

I don't understand what they meant by that.

I (lightheartedly) asked if you were out to 'cancel' women (obviously assuming that you weren't really). So maybe the jokey tone didn't come across.

But I still don't get what the PP meant by groups that are apparently out to 'cancel' women. I think I am missing something!

Pater Power I assume could mean Patriarchy Power.