Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
DrBlackbird · 06/03/2024 08:57

Obfuscating language is their MO

Foucault is a great example. I suspect that he was another man who hated women. Or at least saw them as irrelevant. As well as being a man both into his sexual fetish and one who did a bang up job of writing endlessly on sex and making S&M sound transgressive and liberating.

One good reason that he wrote to obfuscate would be because he might have not been lauded quite so much if he explicitly said adults absolutely should be able to have sex with 10 year old children. On the other hand, he came pretty close to saying just that, didn’t he, and yet he is still revered in social philosophy.

"There are children who throw themselves at an adult at the age of ten –so? There are children who consent, who would be delighted, aren’t there?. . . I’d be tempted to say: from the moment that the child doesn’t refuse,there is no reason to punish any act . . . [O]ne would be tempted to say: itisn’t true that one can get a child to do what it doesn’t really want to,simply by exercising authority" (Michel Foucault, Foucault Live: Collected Interviews, 1961–1984, p. 273)

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 08:59

Ingenieur · 06/03/2024 08:43

@Helleofabore

“WPATH is and has always been a science- and evidence-based organization whose recommendations are widely endorsed by major medical organizations around the world."

So Bowers' evidence of WPATH's professionalism is that other bodies make use of their work?

Absolutely astounding!

That is how I read it.

Yes. Because when you build the house of cards, and we saw this at Yogyakarta and through the Denton’s recommendations, you can then fill the demand you have created. So, you work away in the policy area, then when that gets traction, you have your activist clinicians ready to fill all the positions created to provide the weak evidence and call it convincing, more and more of your activists use that weak evidence to prop up more weak policy and guidance and voila.

You have WPATH providing so called evidence to the World Health Organization’s who have nothing else to go on but this new overwhelming demand of children and young people demanding treatment.

Probably a crap analogy but it seems to work like a Ponzi scheme. WPATH gets its credibility from advising the ‘world’s health organisations’ about a demand that is being fed like wild fire by activist led activities. By social contagion (which is deemed transphobic to say) and other issues such as dodgy clinicians who might make suggestions based on false treatment recommendations.

Meanwhile, genuine patients are receiving a low standard of care but are being told by those believing they are righteous that this is the gold standard.

And meanwhile Bowers’ can only bluster and gee up the members with a ‘remember WE are the world’s advisors here!!’. Talk about fiddling while the place burns.

NotBadConsidering · 06/03/2024 09:02

I imagine Bowers is secretly terrified. If Jazz Jennings has an epiphany - if not so already - and has the bravery to seek restitution for the harm Bowers has caused Jennings, then Bowers could be facing very serious consequences.

LargeSquareRock · 06/03/2024 09:05

NotBadConsidering · 06/03/2024 09:02

I imagine Bowers is secretly terrified. If Jazz Jennings has an epiphany - if not so already - and has the bravery to seek restitution for the harm Bowers has caused Jennings, then Bowers could be facing very serious consequences.

Especially as the surgery was televised.

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:10

But Bowers themselves has already acknowledged the experimental nature of these surgeries. After those quotes came out from that interview, I honestly thought that Bowers would have been asked to vacate the President role. But Bowers just continued like Bowers’ had not just removed a chunk out of the foundations with those comments.

And it seemed like no one took notice except that behind the scenes after Keira Bell’s case, the country’s medical boards just started their own reviews and quietly made statements.

The WHO quietly making the statement about weak evidence seems to have not filtered through either. We still have posters coming and plonking down that fucked up Cornell list of supposed evidence. Being kind really had led to being ignorant.

DrBlackbird · 06/03/2024 09:10

NotBadConsidering · 06/03/2024 09:02

I imagine Bowers is secretly terrified. If Jazz Jennings has an epiphany - if not so already - and has the bravery to seek restitution for the harm Bowers has caused Jennings, then Bowers could be facing very serious consequences.

It would be so satisfying to have the person responsible for so much pain and unnecessary suffering to be held to account. But even if Jazz Jennings had any tiny middle of the night private regrets, it would take an incredibly strong person to publicly accept that they’ve made a tragic and permanent mistake and the life they’ve been living is all a damning and damaging lie.

LargeSquareRock · 06/03/2024 09:15

DrBlackbird · 06/03/2024 09:10

It would be so satisfying to have the person responsible for so much pain and unnecessary suffering to be held to account. But even if Jazz Jennings had any tiny middle of the night private regrets, it would take an incredibly strong person to publicly accept that they’ve made a tragic and permanent mistake and the life they’ve been living is all a damning and damaging lie.

Jazz will need to accept that his mother is a monster. I almost hope he doesn’t have this revelation and can live a quiet oblivious life.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 06/03/2024 09:22

I'm expecting the BBC and the Guardian will wait until someone finds a detail in the report that's not quite correct (in 70-odd pages there must be one!) or an individual invoved in the leak or report who once did something questionable or a missed bit of whistleblowing process, and then lead off on "nasty transphobe steals confidential material and misrepresents it to smear ground-breaking WPATH clinicians and advocates. And oh yeah, WPATH might be a bit controversial now".

Just hoping that the Times gets in there! People who dismiss the Telegraph, Mail and GB News respect the Times.

Brefugee · 06/03/2024 09:22

apparently it has been Fact Checked - not sure by whom or what their credentials are, but the WPATH files being released is now being touted as transphobic scare mongering.

Benjamin Ryan on X: "Erin Reed @ErinInTheMorn took under 30 hours to apply her famous red line to the 216-page WPATH Files report: t.co/rWdi1mFMQV t.co/2mIVRh1M26" / X (twitter.com)

https://twitter.com/benryanwriter/status/1765255206978113777

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:24

Well here is a rebuttal.

there is an archive version, I will post that link below in case the archive link gets hidden by MN.

But hey, Read is on the case! At least one of our regular posters will be happy as they consider Read to be the epitome of an investigative journalist and truth! While Read describes themselves as a mother. Which is false from the get go.

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-216-instances-of-factual

Fact Check: 216 Instances Of Factual Errors Found In Right-Wing "WPATH Files" Document

On Monday, anti-trans groups released a set of highly editorialized and decontextualized leaks dubbed the "WPATH Files." A fact check reveals 216 errors, misrepresentations, and faulty citations.

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-216-instances-of-factual

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:25

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:24

Well here is a rebuttal.

there is an archive version, I will post that link below in case the archive link gets hidden by MN.

But hey, Read is on the case! At least one of our regular posters will be happy as they consider Read to be the epitome of an investigative journalist and truth! While Read describes themselves as a mother. Which is false from the get go.

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-216-instances-of-factual

https://archive.is/nfJ

Yay. Archive links are back again!!!!

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 09:25

LargeSquareRock · 06/03/2024 09:15

Jazz will need to accept that his mother is a monster. I almost hope he doesn’t have this revelation and can live a quiet oblivious life.

I honestly hope that, too. Realisation for people who've been treated, mistreated like this would be so painful.

Then again, so is the queasy cognitive dissonance of living a lie.

Whatever happens, I hope Jazz finds a way to have a fulfilling life. And I do wish the family would stop self publicising. It's not healthy.

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 09:26

A rebuttal is great news. The BBC and the Guardian can report on that.

As the Guardian did on the Wi Spa controversy, a character assassination on Cubana Angel, the woman calling out the male sex offender, iirc.

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:27

Sorry for all the cross posting.

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 09:30

'...rather mundane and often almost dull exchanges between doctors, psychologists, and therapists. These professionals are seen asking about edge cases and seeking advice from colleagues on patient circumstances. Despite attempts to cast the messages in a negative light, the report significantly misses the mark. In a thorough fact-check of the document, I have uncovered 216 instances of factual inaccuracies, erroneous citations, misinterpretations of what is “leaked,” and purposeful omissions contradicting the authors central editorialized claims'

Erin's take.

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 09:33

Brefugee · 06/03/2024 09:22

apparently it has been Fact Checked - not sure by whom or what their credentials are, but the WPATH files being released is now being touted as transphobic scare mongering.

Benjamin Ryan on X: "Erin Reed @ErinInTheMorn took under 30 hours to apply her famous red line to the 216-page WPATH Files report: t.co/rWdi1mFMQV t.co/2mIVRh1M26" / X (twitter.com)

Looked into Erin's credentials recently. Claims to be a journalist.

Only experience apart from two short articles online, appears to be several years on 'The American Independent'.

The AI was described as a 'pink slime' or 'pseudo news' outlet by NewsGuard and Axios.

RethinkingLife · 06/03/2024 09:34

But hey, Read is on the case! At least one of our regular posters will be happy as they consider Read to be the epitome of an investigative journalist and truth!

Do you ever wonder if such posters apply different standards when buying cars or interviewing contractors for necessary work? </merail>

As a side note, I once spent 3 weeks checking the errors in one sentence of something that I was reviewing. That was because some of the reference material wasn't online. I had to go to the British Library to see the item because it wasn't available via interlibrary loan within a reasonable timescale.

Depending on stats, it can sometimes take about a week to run a batch process on a model.

A long way to say that I'm envious startled that Read has carried out what is obviously detailed, forensic fact-checking of 216 items in this time. Unless Read crowdsourced it and has done some quality assurance work.

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:37

I love the fact that several extreme transgender right activists have tried to use the 'decontextualised' argument.

Read wrote: 'In this highly editorialized document, select decontextualized images of forum posts from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health were made public.'

Seriously? They think that adding context to the interactions will make a difference to what they have said and written?

These people do live in an unrealistic world. They honestly believe that if you just say stuff, it becomes material reality.

NotBadConsidering · 06/03/2024 09:39

I never did get an answer from our illustrious barrister poster as to whether they’d be confident putting Erin Read on the stand to testify about the strengths of the affirmative medical model🤔

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:41

RethinkingLife · 06/03/2024 09:34

But hey, Read is on the case! At least one of our regular posters will be happy as they consider Read to be the epitome of an investigative journalist and truth!

Do you ever wonder if such posters apply different standards when buying cars or interviewing contractors for necessary work? </merail>

As a side note, I once spent 3 weeks checking the errors in one sentence of something that I was reviewing. That was because some of the reference material wasn't online. I had to go to the British Library to see the item because it wasn't available via interlibrary loan within a reasonable timescale.

Depending on stats, it can sometimes take about a week to run a batch process on a model.

A long way to say that I'm envious startled that Read has carried out what is obviously detailed, forensic fact-checking of 216 items in this time. Unless Read crowdsourced it and has done some quality assurance work.

Edited

I remember Read denouncing Jamie Reid's whistle blower expose. Read stated that Jamie had no clinical experience and or qualifications. Yet Jamie was working in a gender clinic at the time.... AND that Jamie was obviously anti-trans. When Jamie is in a relationship with a female who identifies as a man.

That was the level of investigative reporting that we should expect from Read.

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:44

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 09:30

'...rather mundane and often almost dull exchanges between doctors, psychologists, and therapists. These professionals are seen asking about edge cases and seeking advice from colleagues on patient circumstances. Despite attempts to cast the messages in a negative light, the report significantly misses the mark. In a thorough fact-check of the document, I have uncovered 216 instances of factual inaccuracies, erroneous citations, misinterpretations of what is “leaked,” and purposeful omissions contradicting the authors central editorialized claims'

Erin's take.

FFS. So... on one hand 'dull and rather mundane'..... in the next sentence 'edge cases'.

It is fuckwittery. Fuckwittery I tell you.

And the funniest thing is the dismissal of the fact that Schellenberger and the others plus Genspect had the information for months before releasing. Yet.... Genspect is listed straight after this sentence:

'The files were quickly shared by nearly every major anti-trans organization and journalists aligned with them. Genspect described it as “one of the worst medical scandals in history.” '

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 09:45

All responses are useful, imo!

Mmmnotsure · 06/03/2024 09:46

Watching the Wpath video. Dr Dan Metzger, Paediatric Endocrinologist at the BC Children’s Hospital in Vancouver and a Clinical Professor of Paediatrics at University of British Colombia is speaking about how talking to 14-year-olds about fertility preservation is like talking to a blank wall.

He mentions Dutch data on young adults who had transitioned and reproductive regret. ‘It’s there, And I don’t think any of that surprises us.' But then he waves his hands around and says 'I don’t remember any of the numbers or anything…..'. It appears these are not important in his and Wpath’s view.

But the thing that hit me is when he talks about his young patients.
‘The 14-year-olds…Informed consent is still a big lacuna... we try to talk about it but most of the kids are nowhere in any kind of a brain space to really, really, really talk about it in a serious way. That's always bothered me but you know, we still want the kids to be happier in the moment, right?'

Enabling a 14-year-old to be ‘happier in the moment’ used to mean giving in and letting them have another hour on the Xbox or eat too much ice cream, not starting them down a (W)path to have bits of their body chopped off.

Brefugee · 06/03/2024 09:47

Helleofabore · 06/03/2024 09:25

https://archive.is/nfJ

Yay. Archive links are back again!!!!

Edited

doesn't work for me :(