To think this is a clear bit of film that all MP’s should watch, demonstrating why men in women’s sport is ludicrous?

[99doshredballoons]

American and sport based but the implication and consequences are clear.

Hopefully this stays as an AIBU rather than being either deleted or moved to another section.

What do you want MPs to do exactly? Parliament doesn’t set the rules for sports, that is down to each sport’s individual governing body. FINA, the world governing body for swimming already bans male-bodies competitors from women’s competition and British Swimming has fully implemented the ban. Likewise most of the other major sports have bans in place. There are no male-bodied competitors in women’s swimming, cycling, athletics, rugby in the U.K. We expect the few standouts (football, netball, cricket) to fall into line very soon.

Using examples from American college sports is not really very useful and has no bearing on the situation in the U.K. or indeed the rest of the world.

This is honestly the most moronic thing I’ve heard in a while. Do you really think, if we did this with football as per your example, there would be ANY women in the best teams? No. They’d be full of men/males/people born with penises/AMABs. Why? Because men are, usually, stronger/faster/fitter (in short bursts) than women. So the where do you think the women would be? Oh yes, in the leagues with the smaller, less fit men/males/people born with penises/AMABs.

so, let’s ask the audience eh? Who wants to watch the best players in the world? Who wants to watch the less good teams?

mmmmm so men get sponsorship. Men get highly paid. Men get to play sport.

back to the reason there’s frigging sec based “segregation” as you put it in the first place.

I disagree, I think it is important to have politicians onside - perhaps the government doesn't make sporting rules, however they may be useful in pushing for changes, or put pressure on sporting bodies by withholding funding etc.

Many of the UK sporting bodies only relented after pushback about this issue, it wasn't an automatic thing.

And I think it's important to show what can happen if you let stuff like this run riot on college campuses like is happening in the US. It's a cautionary tale.

Indeed!

Exactly

But that doesn't suit anyone: the TWAW cult don't want to abolish categories either. After all, without women's sport those athletes wouldn't win anything. Most have been mediocre or poor in men's sport, so have switched to women's so they can win something.

However, this situation is actually happening: Parkrun have abolished their categories and lists of records after criticism over transwomen holding several women's records. Far too cowardly to ban TW from the women's category, they've done away with listing the records instead.

‘What do you want MPs to do exactly?’

I want them all, not just Rishi Sunak, to stand up and say they understand who women are.

Kier Starmer, who may be the next PM, has said that 1% of women have penises. If this blatant lie proliferates through the political party in charge of the uk, any woman’s rights are doomed. Sport and everything else. Because no women’s areas, would be biological women only. If we have that foundation (biological females definition agreed by all) - it makes it far more difficult for sports and everything else, to have men in them.

I want them all, not just Rishi Sunak, to stand up and say they understand who women are. Biological scientific fact-based statements. Not woo woo bullshit influenced by toxic ideologies trends statements.

That is what I want the politicians to do.

Exactly

I read about Sharron Davies standing up for the right of women in sport. She made her mouth but was at all times respectful about the Trans community.
When was the last time uou saw her commentating on swimming? That's right because she was basically dropped from all events and fortunately was able to keep a roof over her family,s head.
Now everyone who basically dropped her are now coming out and saying the same!

Sharron Davies has been an amazing, indefatigable defender of women's sport. She and JK are astonishing in their bravery and persistence. Many a lesser woman would have gone quiet by now.

They appear on all these threads. It is a great demonstration of entrenched ideological thinking. Because there is no ‘merit’ to their ideas.

I believe that some people believe the EA2010 needs to be tested in court. And then wide spread pressure needs to be applied to ensure that sporting federations use the exceptions in the Act to protect female athletes.

Potentially a separate law could be passed though guaranteeing this protection for the future. Why not?

Because as we have seen from Parkrun, there are still sporting organisations prioritising inclusion over female needs of fairness and safety.

And just for the record. It is also a safety issue for female athletes to have to train to such a degree they are more prone to injury to remain competitive to male athletes. Particularly during menstruation…. Something that male people never have had to make allowances for.

Yep. Men are in charge and men are good with allowing men into women’s sport and spaces.

Since Stonewall was taken over by male woman haters, and the wonderful founder of stonewall was hounded out, Stonewall has not been fit for purpose. Yet organisations are still propagating stonewall lies, and bullying of women - in sport and everything else.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/how-allies-can-challenge-racism-and-lgbtq-phobia-sport

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/freedom-speech-simon-fanshawe-stonewall-trans-b1114871.html

No, YANBU. It's so obvious it's tedious at this point. I'm very bored of the expectation that we all pretend there's absolutely no difference between men and women. I'm bored of people misquoting or misinterpreting De Beauvoir. I'm bored of the zero shits anyone gives about interrogating the fundamental concept that a sexed existence can be identified with. I'm bored of the emotive language and hyperbole.

I am bored. Wake me up when we've stopped rolling back women's progress by about a century.

Oh dear God!! 😳

Yep. I get it. However if we all fall asleep, when we wake up women and therefore women’s rights will have been erased. So we can’t do that. Even though it is tempting in the face of misogynistic stupidity and aggression.
We have to fight it and get our rights back. People can identify however they like, go for it but don’t expect to take women’s rights. Women do not have penises, people cannot change sex, stop fucking up children.

@Helleofabore I don’t believe that politicians have any place legislating how sports are run. I along with countless coaches and athletes, spent years quietly lobbying our governing bodies about this. It paid off, with some unwitting help (thanks Emily Bridges!) from TRAs themselves. We don’t need any help from bloody politicians.

On the other hand lots of independent events (those not affiliated to a national governing body), such as unaffiliated MTB and gravel racing, Parkrun, most trail running races, many road running races allow males to race in women’s categories. While I vociferously disagree with this, it’s their choice and not something that should be legislated over. After all, most of them are run as profit-making businesses (with the exception of Parkrun). They also don’t dope test and don’t age verify - they’re just interested in paying customers. I feel sorry for poor old Parkrun having born the brunt of the criticism when loads of for-profit race promoters do exactly the same.

🙄🙄 no. It should not be their choice to allow men in women’s sports. That is why legislation is needed. Things have changed.

If all the sportswomen stopped playing / competing in protest, then they would have to stop including trans.
Quite simple really.

Great. We can agree to disagree. I have seen the exact opposite happen in Australia where Gillard introduced gender identity into the anti-discrimination law and it means that sporting bodies are left thinking they have no choice but to include. The fact that this has happened leaves me highly concerned that unless there is absolute clarity, women will lose out. I don’t believe that any organisation advertising a single sex event should allow that to be interpreted to the detriment of women and girls. Because I don’t believe the future of women and girl’s should be left up for such interpretation and ambiguity.

Can you clarify just what you spent years quietly lobbying for exactly? The laws to allow for female people to compete fairly?

True.

And swimming in the UK already have switched to female and male/open categories.

Female is for those born female sex only.

Male/open is for everyone else.

Not rocket science and biologically fair.

And they aren't the first sport to have written a transgender and non binary competing policy.

@99doshredballoons what legislation do you suggest? I suppose you could have a requirement that any competitive event that splits results by sex should make it clear that registration should be by birth sex. But what about events that are explicitly trans-friendly such as Thundercrit? Should they be illegal? Although I suppose Thundercrit already sidesteps the issue by having Thunder and Lightning as it’s categories rather than men and women.

Well said @AliceAforethought

That's what they want isnt it. To completely destroy women and all the things.