Restoring Sanity Takes Time - Helen Joyce

[RethinkingLife]

A bracing read. I am still in a state of some despair about how long this will take. As several people have observed, in the last 10 days, the BBC (in common with other media) disseminated unscientific propaganda that male galactorrhea is better than mother’s milk, repeatedly called a deeply disturbed killer a woman while disdaining to acknowledge the alternate reality as a cat, and has publicly reprimanded Justin Webb for plain speaking that was probably helpful to many listeners.

What will it take to bring bigoted employers to heel? Part of the answer is time. During the past decade, the trans lobby has been stunningly successful in selling false analogies to HR departments: that separate toilets for men and women are like racial segregation; and that insisting people can change sex is “gay rights 2.0”.
Lazy, power-hungry HR managers and staff working in “EDI” (equality, diversity and inclusion) pronounce that the arc of the moral universe is bending towards denying sexual dimorphism, and relish imposing their will on others.
…
Imagine you’re an HR professional belatedly wondering if you’ve got the wrong end of the stick on the whole sex-gender thing. You might turn to A Practical Guide to Transgender Law by two barristers, Nicola Newbegin and transwoman Robin Moira White.
But that might not save you from serious missteps. The first edition, published before the binding Forstater judgment, enthusiastically endorsed the faulty lower court ruling. The second grudgingly acknowledged that yes, gender-critical beliefs were protected, but claimed that “manifesting” them — letting others know you held them — wasn’t.
Even before the recent string of judgments to the contrary, that was obvious nonsense. The law about freedom of belief expressly includes “manifestation”. And anyway, it takes but a moment’s thought to realise that the law can’t possibly concern beliefs that are never manifested, since it can’t reach inside the privacy of our heads.
…
At bottom, the mindset of the narcissistic identitarians joining in workplace witch-hunts is that of the Crusaders, who made converts at the point of a sword. They do not respect other people’s sovereign consciences, nor accept that their belief system is just one among many. And like the Crusaders, they need to be consigned to history.

https://thecritic.co.uk/restoring-sanity-takes-time/

Adding in a good read about the Meade and Phoenix rulings:

And of course.....

e.g. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7ca66d40f0b65b3de0a47d/sexual-offending-overview-jan-2013.pdf

Characteristics of prisoners in custody for sexual offences

Gender

In 2011, there were 10,832 male prisoners in custody for sexual offences, a rise of 4 per cent since 2010. There were 103 female prisoners in custody for sexual offences, a fall of 15 per cent since 2010.

This is using data from the Ministry of Justice. Their reports from other years have similar figures.

Well wait, we are patiently waiting for the following information to be posted:

The evidence where a male at any stage of transition has less risk of committing a sexual offence than any other male person in the UK?

The evidence where a male at any stage of transition has less or the same risk of committing a sexual offence as any female person in the UK?

I think that the onus is on those who want to lower safeguarding protocols to provide the evidence that supports that there is no longer any need for those protocols in the first place.

This is good, from Helen Joyce's article that is ostensibly the subject of this thread:

"The most basic form of manifestation is simply revealing what you believe, like a Christian wearing a cross or a Jewish man wearing a kippah. What Adams and Phoenix did barely went further. Adams made a polite suggestion to resolve a problem that would have been evident to anyone with gender-critical beliefs; Phoenix set up a network to do research on topics that would naturally interest such a person.
And yet both women were called “transphobic” and accused of making their colleagues “unsafe”.

This is crybullying — using false claims of victimisation to harass others. It’s a technique of narcissists, who want to force everyone else to endorse their self-image. Since their identities depend on external validation, they treat refusal to supply such validation as a mortal threat, and may respond with what psychologists call narcissistic rage. Thus the absurdly disproportionate characterisation of disagreement as hate."

And to note, at the centre of both of those was a female "non binary" person.

Ah well, the other statistic you need to know then is that just 2% of rapists are even charged, much less convicted.

You might also want to ask yourself why women would not report their rape, when you call it 'using their trauma'.

Statistics more than ten years old relating to prisoners rather than offenders. Does the number of men in prison for rape reflect the actual number of sexual offences by men?

All the statistics I'm seeing suggest a split of as much as 80/20.

As Datun said, most men don't go to prison for their rapes.

Statistics more than ten years old relating to prisoners rather than offenders. Does the number of men in prison for rape reflect the actual number of sexual offences by men?

good God. You can't be this illogical.

I was just writing about this.

I said anti trans campaigners were using other women's trauma, not that victims were.

Women not reporting rape has nothing to do with trans women.

You have absolutely no right to tell me how to relate to my son. I know the physical reality. No-one has ever been able to explain to me in what way my son is a woman. What does it mean to be a man or to be a woman? Attempting to change the definitions of words does not change the underlying truth.

In my opinion, a man claiming to have the “identity” of a woman is at best disrespectful to women. And to tell a parent that his or her son doesn’t exist is disrespectful. Likewise, to tell a wife that her husband is now not her husband, or a child that his or her father is now not his or her father, is disrespectful. And yet I am called “bigoted” (not even the milder “disrespectful”) for correctly sexing, or “misgendering” as the ideology likes to frame it, my son.

As for your suggestion that I should support anyone, and unbelievably my own child specifically, in self harming behaviour, that is absolutely disgraceful, and you should have a long hard look at your values.

That's exactly my point! That you can't site prison populations as evidence of anything when it comes to sexual assault.

The important factors for the questions to be answered is not the 'split' of sexual offences.

It is the rate of which male people commit these offences vs those of a male person with a trans identity. Is it the same? Is it higher? Is it lower?

Then the next thing to find is what that rate is compared to a female person.

It's illogical to claim that the statistics you cited are evidence of the sex or gender split when it comes to sexual offences.

The graphic I posted above is derived from stats provided by the MOJ for the period 2021 - 2022.

That recent enough?

And yet, it is the only mechanism we currently have.

If we cannot use those statistics, would you please tell us why not?

And what the fuck you think is going to actually happen to the rates of male people committing sex crimes vs female people committing sex crimes if there was another way? Do you think that the rate will be lower or higher for each sex if there was another mechanism to collect this data?

Why?

That's exactly my point! That you can't site prison populations as evidence of anything when it comes to sexual assault.

You can cite them as evidence of the potential for sexual violence risk in the prison population.

Why have you ignored the sex based sexual assault stats other people presented?

I'm not wading into the 'they're all rapists and paedos' territory. It's disgusting discourse that should be limited to 4chan, not a feminist forum.

I said anti trans campaigners were using other women's trauma, not that victims were.

Some women who aren't in prison, who aren't traumatised by rape, who aren't being beaten nightly in a coercive relationship will campaign on behalf of those who are.

Ok? Is that alright with you?

Or will equal pay only to go to those women who campaigned for it? Is it all right to rape women within marriage, because they didn't show up for the march?

And you must know, if you're on mumsnet for any length of time, that an extraordinary significant percentage of women here have been raped, beaten, assaulted. A nanosecond on the relationships board will tell you that.

Although, I strongly suspect that the only women you would like to hear from are those with no hope, no chance and no voice.

And yet, on this thread you have dismissed female people's trauma and their religious needs.

lol.

And this is a straw man and it is sparple.

No one is making any such declaration at all.

I said anti trans campaigners were using other women's trauma, not that victims were.

Many of the women you write off as "anti trans campaigners" are victims. Like JK Rowling for instance. That's why this issue is important for them (and I include myself in that). We've always talked about this in our "particular corner" that you dislike so much.

I think far more women commit sexual offences against children than we have historically assumed.