Restoring Sanity Takes Time - Helen Joyce

[RethinkingLife]

A bracing read. I am still in a state of some despair about how long this will take. As several people have observed, in the last 10 days, the BBC (in common with other media) disseminated unscientific propaganda that male galactorrhea is better than mother’s milk, repeatedly called a deeply disturbed killer a woman while disdaining to acknowledge the alternate reality as a cat, and has publicly reprimanded Justin Webb for plain speaking that was probably helpful to many listeners.

What will it take to bring bigoted employers to heel? Part of the answer is time. During the past decade, the trans lobby has been stunningly successful in selling false analogies to HR departments: that separate toilets for men and women are like racial segregation; and that insisting people can change sex is “gay rights 2.0”.
Lazy, power-hungry HR managers and staff working in “EDI” (equality, diversity and inclusion) pronounce that the arc of the moral universe is bending towards denying sexual dimorphism, and relish imposing their will on others.
…
Imagine you’re an HR professional belatedly wondering if you’ve got the wrong end of the stick on the whole sex-gender thing. You might turn to A Practical Guide to Transgender Law by two barristers, Nicola Newbegin and transwoman Robin Moira White.
But that might not save you from serious missteps. The first edition, published before the binding Forstater judgment, enthusiastically endorsed the faulty lower court ruling. The second grudgingly acknowledged that yes, gender-critical beliefs were protected, but claimed that “manifesting” them — letting others know you held them — wasn’t.
Even before the recent string of judgments to the contrary, that was obvious nonsense. The law about freedom of belief expressly includes “manifestation”. And anyway, it takes but a moment’s thought to realise that the law can’t possibly concern beliefs that are never manifested, since it can’t reach inside the privacy of our heads.
…
At bottom, the mindset of the narcissistic identitarians joining in workplace witch-hunts is that of the Crusaders, who made converts at the point of a sword. They do not respect other people’s sovereign consciences, nor accept that their belief system is just one among many. And like the Crusaders, they need to be consigned to history.

https://thecritic.co.uk/restoring-sanity-takes-time/

Adding in a good read about the Meade and Phoenix rulings:

You're just a common or garden men's rights activist. We see a few of you on these boards.

So did you look at the WPath files or the statistics that demonstrate that men who identify as trans women commit sexual offences at the same, if not higher rates, as other men or are you still claiming that statistics produced by the Ministry of Justice are unreliable?

Or are you just flouncing from thread to thread with your men's right's activism hoping we don't notice what you are actually advocating for?

And there it is again - this insistence that standing up for women's rights and boundaries, refusing to act as props or validators for fetishists, pointing out the immutability of sex and the danger of transing children is somehow "demonising" trans people. I don't think they're demons. I just don't want male bodied people to feel entitled to enter spaces or seize opportunities that I, my daughter and my granddaughters regard as reserved for women as a sex class.

Yes. Ten a penny within your tiny minority.
We've heard it all before. And yet we like to keep the lines of discussion open. Always welcome talking about these issues with EVERYONE.
We'll keep discussing because it's so fucking important.

Of course, saying you have no interest in continuing the debate is an excellent way of assuring your thoughts are taken seriously.

You must really believe in what you think 👍🏻

"The Fox Coral is both male and female and can reproduce sexually and asexually. To reproduce sexually, the corals release eggs and sperm at the same time."

Aha, I had a Google yesterday as well because it's often highly enlightening but couldn't see anything. Good spot

This whole name thing has been enormously diverting. It really was AI generated, by mumsnet. This would be easy enough for you to verify if so wished. See the type of names it suggests. I'm neither clever, nor invested enough, to bother coming up with a secretly code name.

Aside from that though, this is exceedingly dull. It's just the same few stock phrases being repeated ad nauseum, except with the meanings distorted. Don't you ever get bored?

You cared enough to google me too! Well now I just feel terrible that I haven't googled you.

Don't you ever get bored?

No I don't get bored fighting for the rights of women and girls I do, however, get bored by the tedious, MRAs, TRAs and their simpering allies that can't manage a coherent response (or indeed any response) to questions and are too prejudiced and blinkered to allow themselves to see the evidence in front of their eyes.

On a positive note, I have learned LOADS about asexuality in nature. Went down a few rabbit holes and found it extremely interesting.

None of it pertinent to this debate tho😁

If you support trans rights then you will want them to be based on firm foundations not a pile of shifting sand (or maybe you like shifting sand if you're a coral) A lot of trans activism seems to be based on wishful thinking 'I am a trans woman, I feel weak now my testosterone levels have dropped therefore I must be allowed to compete in women's sport' Sorry, no. Male puberty means you will always have a physical advantage over women. 'It's great to block puberty and then take testosterone that will turn me into a man without any problems.' Sorry no. Puberty blockers and testosterone cause long term health effects. Worst case scenario you could die of liver cancer by the time you're 30. What I'm mystified by is the lack of interest in research into trans peoples' health by the trans community.

Get bored? What a peculiar thing to say.
Actually shocked you used that word.

This isn't something people get bored with.

You cared enough to google me too! Well now I just feel terrible that I haven't googled you.

I'm the Babylonian Queen of the Underworld.

Also an homage to a much missed former Mumsnetter who got banned, who knows more about safeguarding than most of us.

What did they do to get banned?

Yes it does.

Thank you! As you can see, the first name suggestion is a colour and fox. It really was that simple!

I'm not interested in whether sex is or isn't binary in nature. I respect people's gender identity, whatever that means to them.

Now that's debunked maybe we can restore some sanity to this thread.

She pointed out how people who weren't mumsnet posters were exercising coercive control over mumsnet posters via vexatious abuse of reporting.

Another one just like the other ones. Meh

Yes please bring some sanity to the thread, via the medium of believing that people's ideas about themselves are more important than provable reality.

Y'know, like my identity as a 7 year old entitling me to join year 2 at the local primary.

I stand corrected.

Apologies.

So those Ministry of Justice Stats @ForCoralFox ?

Looked at them yet?

WPath files?

Looked at them yet?

I'm still waiting with bated breath to hear what rights trans people don't have.

Genuinely interested.

Never heard it explained. Maybe today's the day 🤞

Good plan. Sanity does involve information though. Two years ago I would have said I supported trans rights and I still do but what I came to realise that trans rights and women's rights were clearly not always compatible. I concluded this after realising that self ID absolutely would open up women's spaces to abuse from men - not necessarily trans men but just men who wanted to get into women's spaces for whatever reason. I would describe myself as politically centre left and for a while was wondering why intelligent women I consider to be not right wing such as Germaine Greer and JK Rowling were suddenly being unkind bigots towards one of the most marginalised communities. I think the Scottish bill to move towards self-ID combined with the stories of transgender sex offenders such as Isla Bryson made me realise that self-ID would mean for women. I read around trans women in women's sport and realised 'being kind' would eradicate the female category of sport from the grassroots to the top levels. As soon as a spotlight is shone on demands for access to women's spaces by trans women it always has the potential to create dangerous and unfair situations for women. I am also deeply concerned about the impact, especially on girls with asd and mental health problems, of a health care model which, without adequate mental health screening, seemed to be pushing them to mess with their bodies (puberty blockers, testosterone, mastectomies) in a way which would damage them for their whole lives. Since then, I have read about whistleblowers and health care professionals in the field raising the alarm about the risks of gender affirming care. I really do recommend you read around the subject. Not on twitter but through some of the links I posted which are to reputable sources such as the Cass interim report.

If you genuinely find gender critical arguments mystifying, you might find this thread will help you to understand.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?

@emmsee - that was pretty much my journey too. It just astounds me that some women blind themselves to these issues.