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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another BBC Complaint Thread: Response to "human milk" piece

63 replies

WitchyWitcherson · 01/03/2024 19:26

Lots of threads about the beeb this evening, oh dear 😂

I complained about the BBC News Channel interview with Kate Luxion the other night and have received this response...

"Thank you for getting in touch about an edition of ‘The Context’ broadcast on the BBC News Channel on 19 February.

The final segment of this edition focused on the publication of a letter from a medical director at an NHS Trust, written in response to campaign groups, which said that transgender women’s milk is just as good for babies as breast milk, referring to studies and WHO guidance.

Strong criticism of the letter’s contents by campaign groups was widely reported and so the programme sought reaction from Kate Luxion, an academic with relevant experience who was introduced as a “Research Fellow in Creative Health at the University College London and a lactation consultant trainee”.

During the discussion some of those criticisms were highlighted, with presenter Rajini Vaidyanathan pointing out that:
“There have been campaign groups who have criticised this letter. One, Policy Exchange, has said that the letter is unbalanced and naïve in its assertion that the secretions produced by a male on hormones could nourish an infant in the way a mother’s breastmilk can.”

And that:
“Another thing I’d like to put to you from critics of this letter - saying the NHS should not be indulging in this nonsense. A child's welfare must always take precedence over identity politics and what they describe as “contested beliefs systems that are not evidence-based”. Just once again, you say that there is evidence in this?”

After broadcast we received complaints suggesting that Kate Luxion was an inappropriate contributor and that the discussion was misleading or misrepresented the science.

Some viewers also specifically objected to the reference to “WHO guidance” in the introduction and while the letter from Dr Rachael James on behalf of University Hospitals Sussex does cite WHO guidance as part of a broader response, we accept that our script could have been clearer on this point.

Although we believe viewers would clearly understand that the discussion represented Kate Luxion’s assessment of the existing evidence, and that this was robustly challenged with other perspectives, we accept it may have been better to have interviewed Kate Luxion alongside another voice when examining the issues raised by the letter.

Your concerns have been discussed directly with senior editors and we will bear them in mind for any future coverage of this issue.

Thank you again for writing in - we very much value your feedback."

The stock response presumably means a lot of complaints were submitted! Who knows if it made much of a ripple amongst senior editors but fingers crossed they'll make sure their "experts" are actual experts next time and give a more balanced view... Not holding my breath!

OP posts:
FizzingAda · 01/03/2024 19:30

Not issuing a correction on the TV though.

IcakethereforeIam · 01/03/2024 19:31

I read an article somewhere, probably yesterday. The BBC said they'd received 257-ish (I can't remember exactly) about the male milk story.

WitchyWitcherson · 01/03/2024 19:36

IcakethereforeIam · 01/03/2024 19:31

I read an article somewhere, probably yesterday. The BBC said they'd received 257-ish (I can't remember exactly) about the male milk story.

Yes, there's a relatively new thread with a link to fortnightly stats of complaints sent to the BBC, I had a look earlier and I think you're about right with the number!

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/03/2024 19:49

It's great that the BBC are receiving complaints about their abysmal coverage of all this. They need to realise women will no longer be silent as the BBC promotes male fetishes and a trans agenda that gaslights the population and actively harms children.
No more.

TheSandgroper · 01/03/2024 23:22

Off topic but wtf is creative health? I can be as creative as I like but my back still hurts.

Didoreththeterf · 01/03/2024 23:54

I took ‘creative health’ to mean ‘fuck all to do with actual health related science or medicine’.

WitchyWitcherson · 02/03/2024 07:38

Creative health seems to be "doing what we like without the usual ethical boundaries" to me

OP posts:
oopster74 · 02/03/2024 18:44

You do realise that breast milk is breast milk, no matter whether it comes from a male or a female? Whether breast milk that comes from someone on hrt medication is safe or not for babies to drink might be something to be concerned about, and looked into, I really don't see what problem anyone should have about it other than simple bigotry on their part.

WickedSerious · 02/03/2024 18:51

I'm a proper bigot when it comes to perverts.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 02/03/2024 19:00

Men will never have sufficient glandular tissue to exclusively breastfeed a baby. The composition of male milk is not the same as mother’s milk. Only the macronutrients have been analysed but it seems to have higher fat content. No one yet knows about the micronutrients or other components. It is known that there will be higher levels of testosterone in male nipple secretions even if a man is taking female hormones. Not to mention that those female hormones are naturally lower in breastfeeding mothers than in women who are not currently pregnant or breastfeeding. So the hormonal profile of a man trying to breastfeed will be quite different from a mother.

Mother’s milk will be familiar to babies because it tastes and smells similar to the particular amniotic fluid each baby has been living in since conception. Mother’s milk also changes throughout the day and according to the age of the baby.

Most importantly of all if a man is trying to breastfeed a baby where is the mother? Why does this man feel that his desires trump the needs of the mother-baby dyad to be together and not have their breastfeeding relationship interfered with?

There are physical and mental health benefits to the mother from breastfeeding. It is what her body expects to do after pregnancy and birth. Why does a man think it is ok to put the mother’s health at risk for his desires?

Since the baby is missing out on his mother’s own milk perfectly tailored to his needs and missing out on the close physical and emotional relationship with his mother for which nature has primed him, why does a man think it is ok to satisfy his own desires by putting a baby’s physical and mental health at risk?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/03/2024 19:05

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 18:44

You do realise that breast milk is breast milk, no matter whether it comes from a male or a female? Whether breast milk that comes from someone on hrt medication is safe or not for babies to drink might be something to be concerned about, and looked into, I really don't see what problem anyone should have about it other than simple bigotry on their part.

Might be something to be concerned about? Are you for real? Breastfeeding mothers are advised to avoid all sorts of things, including painkillers, for the benefit of the baby, and you think it 'might' be worth looking into whether very high levels of artificial hormones in what their male parent is feeding them is a problem? Get a grip. This is nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with wanting to keep babies safe.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/03/2024 19:06

@PomegranateOfPersephone, top post.

WitchyWitcherson · 02/03/2024 19:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/03/2024 19:11

I really don't see why anyone WOULDN'T have a problem with it unless they were totally, blindly captured by an utterly bonkers women and children harming ideology.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 19:11

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/03/2024 19:05

Might be something to be concerned about? Are you for real? Breastfeeding mothers are advised to avoid all sorts of things, including painkillers, for the benefit of the baby, and you think it 'might' be worth looking into whether very high levels of artificial hormones in what their male parent is feeding them is a problem? Get a grip. This is nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with wanting to keep babies safe.

How many transwomen do you think are going to attempt to breastfeed? My guess would be single figures if at all, and my phrasing indicated that, so please, take that into account in what I wrote. Does it need looking into? Only if there are significant numbers of transwomen on hrt that are breastfeeding, otherwise its a waste of time and resources to do so. Might it be an idea to see if men can breastfeed safely? Possibly, but I suspect that not many men would want to breastfeed, so again, a waste of time and resources to research it.

MagpiePi · 02/03/2024 19:11

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 18:44

You do realise that breast milk is breast milk, no matter whether it comes from a male or a female? Whether breast milk that comes from someone on hrt medication is safe or not for babies to drink might be something to be concerned about, and looked into, I really don't see what problem anyone should have about it other than simple bigotry on their part.

What a ridiculous and uninformed opinion.

MagpiePi · 02/03/2024 19:14

@oopster74

Men taking cross sex hormones are not on HRT. The hormones they are taking are not replacing anything, and they are certainly won’t make a man produce ‘milk’.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 02/03/2024 19:15

Every single baby matters. We should not be supporting any man to interfere with the mother-baby dyad or use a baby to satisfy his desires.

WitchyWitcherson · 02/03/2024 19:23

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 19:11

How many transwomen do you think are going to attempt to breastfeed? My guess would be single figures if at all, and my phrasing indicated that, so please, take that into account in what I wrote. Does it need looking into? Only if there are significant numbers of transwomen on hrt that are breastfeeding, otherwise its a waste of time and resources to do so. Might it be an idea to see if men can breastfeed safely? Possibly, but I suspect that not many men would want to breastfeed, so again, a waste of time and resources to research it.

I don't know what the word is for someone who is happy for "only" single figures of children being abused is, but it's certainly far, far worse than "bigot".

Have you heard yourself? Why are trans women at the center of your arguments here? Why not children?

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/03/2024 19:31

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 19:11

How many transwomen do you think are going to attempt to breastfeed? My guess would be single figures if at all, and my phrasing indicated that, so please, take that into account in what I wrote. Does it need looking into? Only if there are significant numbers of transwomen on hrt that are breastfeeding, otherwise its a waste of time and resources to do so. Might it be an idea to see if men can breastfeed safely? Possibly, but I suspect that not many men would want to breastfeed, so again, a waste of time and resources to research it.

The simplest way to deal with this is to get all health care providers, pharmaceutical companies, politicians and regulators to agree that there is no benefit whatsoever in making it possible for males to attempt to breastfeed. Any attempt from a male to put his nipple in a baby's mouth should be treated as deviant behaviour, triggering a safeguarding referral to social services.

I'm not expecting an outbreak of sanity any time soon to make the above possible, but that's what is needed, not just crossing our fingers and saying 'Oh well, hardly any of them will even try it, so let's not worry about it'. One is too many.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 02/03/2024 20:27

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 19:11

How many transwomen do you think are going to attempt to breastfeed? My guess would be single figures if at all, and my phrasing indicated that, so please, take that into account in what I wrote. Does it need looking into? Only if there are significant numbers of transwomen on hrt that are breastfeeding, otherwise its a waste of time and resources to do so. Might it be an idea to see if men can breastfeed safely? Possibly, but I suspect that not many men would want to breastfeed, so again, a waste of time and resources to research it.

One man abusing a baby is one too many. May not matter to you but it does to the rest of us (thank heavens)

StarlightLime · 02/03/2024 20:31

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 18:44

You do realise that breast milk is breast milk, no matter whether it comes from a male or a female? Whether breast milk that comes from someone on hrt medication is safe or not for babies to drink might be something to be concerned about, and looked into, I really don't see what problem anyone should have about it other than simple bigotry on their part.

Stop your nonsense.

pickledandpuzzled · 02/03/2024 20:38

oopster74 · 02/03/2024 19:11

How many transwomen do you think are going to attempt to breastfeed? My guess would be single figures if at all, and my phrasing indicated that, so please, take that into account in what I wrote. Does it need looking into? Only if there are significant numbers of transwomen on hrt that are breastfeeding, otherwise its a waste of time and resources to do so. Might it be an idea to see if men can breastfeed safely? Possibly, but I suspect that not many men would want to breastfeed, so again, a waste of time and resources to research it.

It’s a waste of time and resources helping men breast feed to satisfy their own emotional (at best, sexual at worst) needs.

Babies should not be subjected to men using them to validate their own identity.

Playing at feeding a baby is criminal. The child’s need is paramount.

AuldWeegie · 02/03/2024 20:45

At the risk of sounding thick, where is the biological mother in this scenario?

pickledandpuzzled · 02/03/2024 20:47

Sitting just out of sight watching while her breats leak, I’d think.