Trans women in the Armed Forces can live in female-only accommodation

[IwantToRetire]

Trans military personnel born as men can live in female-only accommodation, an official government document states.

The document, written as part of the JSP 889, the official guidance regarding the recruitment and management of transgender personnel in the Armed Forces, states that the “determining issue” for allocating Single Living Accommodation (SLA), where a single, or unaccompanied person lives, is <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/nhSDs/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/11/trans-soldier-on-panel-army-event-deborah-penny-backlash/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the “affirmed gender” of the transgender person.

It states that “as soon as the transition process begins the person should be provided with accommodation that is appropriate to their affirmed gender”.

“From the date of transition, the person should also have use of the toilet and changing room facilities appropriate to their affirmed gender. Under no circumstances should a transgender person be expected, after transitioning, to use the facilities of <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/nhSDs/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/29/colonel-forced-out-of-army-after-saying-men-cant-be-women/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">their assigned gender,” it reads.

Part of a longer article in the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/20/transwomen-army-allowed-live-female-only-accommodation/

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/nhSDs

Males. Not any kind of women. And policies don't have to "catch up" they should respect women.

Not even that. This JSP only applies to SLA (and not to shared rooms / bathrooms), and SLA is often mixed sex anyway because everyone has their own room and ensuite.

So no forcing of women to shower with TW etc.

Yep, never any forcing. When I mention the example (which is true) no one was forced. You are right about SLA but it's worth noting there were times when I shared facilities with men. On initial officer training, shared bathrooms (not communal showers), shared tents on exercise and shared ablutions on operations. Not denying sexual harassment and abuse happens (has happened to me but actually in accommodation where I did have access to all my own private facilities!) but it's certainly not the norm in the RAF.

www.rafbf.org/news-and-stories/news/transgender-day-visibility-interview-flt-lt-caroline-paige

Also, think about Caroline Paige who served for 35 years, flew for 34 and was on ops for much of that. Ops as a helicopter crew can be basic and she would have been with her crew in shared facilities. There were never any issues. She's also a very lovely person.

Many male people are lovely, but women don't usually want them in female only spaces.

They're not going to be in female only spaces though, unless you're counting a kitchen or laundry room.

It's SLA. They'll have their own room and ensuite, as will all the other personnel.

Oh I get that totally and support women only spaces. Was just pointing out that this news article is a non story and not reflective of what's been established in the Armed Forces for years.

Agree with PP except on ops or exercise that won't be the case necessarily.

They're not going to be in female only spaces though, unless you're counting a kitchen or laundry room.

It's SLA. They'll have their own room and ensuite, as will all the other personnel.

Why is there "female" accommodation then?

Thanks, I can quite believe it's a non story and it's been going on a long time.

Because the Telegraph is stirring.

SLA accommodation in the army (no experience of other forces, experience of 6 different bases for the army) is mixed sex blocks of individual rooms with ensuite showers and toilets. No sharing bathrooms or toilets. There is often a single, lockable, communal room with one bath in each wing. There are shared kitchens and laundry / drying rooms.

There is female and male shared accommodation (think traditional barrack blocks or shared dorm rooms) for Phase 1s and 2s (this is your basic training and then your follow on training), although it's less common for Phase 2s. This JSP reported in the Telegraph does not apply to that accomodation. It only applies to the SLA described above. To my knowledge, the shared accommodation retains the sex segregation.

I would watch that show!

Likewise!

It reminds me of a Roald Dahl story: Man from the South. Except that the gain to women is not present because we're autonomous individuals with our own needs, not support humans.

https://roalddahl.fandom.com/wiki/Man_from_the_South

Regressive. Come on, Kemi.

If he could explain how to me, that would make my life so much easier. Over 50 years wasted, but it is never too late!

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that should disqualify people from military service.

Individuals not suffering from gender dysphoria have no reason to be treated differently from others of their sex.

There is female and male shared accommodation (think traditional barrack blocks or shared dorm rooms) for Phase 1s and 2s (this is your basic training and then your follow on training), although it's less common for Phase 2s. This JSP reported in the Telegraph does not apply to that accomodation. It only applies to the SLA described above. To my knowledge, the shared accommodation retains the sex segregation.

Ok thanks for the clarification, if it's all mixed, then fine. Any single sex should obviously be exactly that, not "women and certain men".

I think comments about there being an individual trans sexual (as they would have been) some decades ago, who were treated as though they had changed sex, is not relevant to the situation today.

The modern incarnation of trans women and the paths to being accepted as that are totally different.

As are the statistics of women who have sufferent violence from TW as opposed to statistics, assuming there are any, of men who transitions decades ago.

So casually implying this is a non story is in dismissing the current situation and the impact it is having on women as nearly every thread on FWR exposes.

I was more suprised, and wondered when this decision had been made, that the armed forces appear to be making a decision that 5-10 years ago nobody would have (dared to) challenge.

But in the current political environment they look politically and socially cloth eared.

Absolutely this

Emotionalsupportviper · Today 14:31

I would watch that show!

Watch it? You'd be the star of it!

Well . . . one doesn't like to boast . . . 🐍 🐍 🐍

Enquiring minds need to know if you're willing to acquire poisonous implants especially for the show…I'm now envisaging a Traitors/Snake pit sort of vibe to heighten the jeopardy in the show.

Don't need 'em!

Razor sharp, poisonous tongue is quite enough, thank you, and I was blessed with that since the day I learned to talk (though admittedly it took some years to hone my linguistic craft).

Edit: I don't mind sitting in the pit waiting for victims as long as I can bring a flask of tea and my knitting.

Maybe go for an even more ambitious crossover and ditch the pit in favour of snake handling. Appeal to the Bible Belt?

To my knowledge, the shared accommodation retains the sex segregation.

How did this mesh with “as soon as the transition process begins the person should be provided with accommodation that is appropriate to their affirmed gender”. ?

How does the army define or differentiate between sex and gender?