Trans women in the Armed Forces can live in female-only accommodation

[IwantToRetire]

Trans military personnel born as men can live in female-only accommodation, an official government document states.

The document, written as part of the JSP 889, the official guidance regarding the recruitment and management of transgender personnel in the Armed Forces, states that the “determining issue” for allocating Single Living Accommodation (SLA), where a single, or unaccompanied person lives, is <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/nhSDs/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/11/trans-soldier-on-panel-army-event-deborah-penny-backlash/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the “affirmed gender” of the transgender person.

It states that “as soon as the transition process begins the person should be provided with accommodation that is appropriate to their affirmed gender”.

“From the date of transition, the person should also have use of the toilet and changing room facilities appropriate to their affirmed gender. Under no circumstances should a transgender person be expected, after transitioning, to use the facilities of <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/nhSDs/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/29/colonel-forced-out-of-army-after-saying-men-cant-be-women/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">their assigned gender,” it reads.

Part of a longer article in the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/20/transwomen-army-allowed-live-female-only-accommodation/

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/nhSDs

Ffs

That's going to work out well. I can feel it in my bones.

Well the military have such a great record of keeping female (boring old actual biological ones) safe from their male colleagues that I'm sure this will be a huge success

Her manager told her not to worry because “it’s not an issue as you can tell who are predators”.
Wow.

What about transmen? Is that sensible policy given current levels of sexual assault in the military? Like prisons, there is an asymmetry in risk with the two scenarios, though neither is satisfactory.

I'd like to hear someone explain how.

What could possibly go wrong with this sensible decision that accepts and recognises transgender people for the sex they feel they are. I applaud the forces for being so inclusive.

I mean women have historically been so safe from harm prior to this decision in the forces so obviously this will be absolutely fine. I don't imagine any of the women will have any issues with this at all.

Nothing to see here!

You're all just being hysterical bigots.

I just thought I'd try out the other point of view. How people can write what I've just written and believe they are on the right side of this argument will never fail to surprise me.

So would I,but I fear an explanation will not be forthcoming.

I agree.

There is absolutely nothing that could possibly go wrong with this.

Nope.

Not a thing.

Generally speaking I am seeing positive improvements in the attitudes - we seem to be out of the "no debate" phase and more and more public bodies and governments are getting stronger on single sex provisions.

Then some fucking mind bending shit like this appears and I feel hopeless all over again

They do know they already have a recruitment problem?

The groups of ex-military that I'm in are reacting as expected.

Sonia Sodha was reviewing the papers on Sky news last night, this came up and she briskly hit it out of the park by saying that single sex accommodation is a legal requirement, so the armed forces had better abide by the law. The presenter said but what about people who identify etc.... ?
'But it's the law'.
No engagement with feelz or identity or anything, just a firm statement of fact.

Sonia Sodha is so together and rational and fluent in these discussions, I admire her👏

I wonder what the numbers are between: women in/considering joining the army; and men in/considering joining the army who are into wearing women's clothing?

Maybe it's a way to get as many males signed up as possible?

'At 1 October 2022, 11.4 per cent of the UK Regular Forces were Female (16,590 personnel)'

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-armed-forces-biannual-diversity-statistics-october-2022/uk-armed-forces-biannual-diversity-statistics-1-october-2022

'A survey of 5,000 British men, carried out for a national women's magazine, found that 25 per cent of men will cross dress at some time in their lives and 8 per cent will do so regularly.' (article from 1995, some of the language used may raise eyebrows).

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-market-changes-on-the-high-street-1523836.html

Those proportions are comparable, no? Perhaps the army would rather just have male recruits, however said recruits identify.

There is a transwoman on DHs base. They have a single room (ensuite, like all others in that building, not soecial treatment) and in the communal areas some disabled toilets have been labeled "gender neutral" which they use. I know the use of disabled facilities is controversial but in reality, these facilities are rarely used on base.

And I’m sure this will help massively with the recruitment crisis they have. Oh great, need to fight the enemy - and wtf is going to happen to me in the shower tonight.

this whole thing is insane

Also have experience of living on base. Current accomodation available to me is a mixed sex block of individual rooms, all with ensuite showers and toilets. No sharing. NCOs. There is a communal kitchen, laundry room, and communal bath room (this is an individual, locking room with a bath in). Think basic BnB / hostel.

Communal showers / living nowadays is generally restricted to basic. Phase 2s depends on the base IME.

However as that JSP applies to single living accommodation, the communal accommodation in Phase 1 / Phase 2 isn't in question here.

From the date of transition, the person should also have use of....

Given that all that is needed to transition is to declare that you are the other sex, what are they expecting to be the tipping point here?

I know I know sir! The level of sexual abuse against women in the armed forces has been shown to be high right? Right. So how about we make it even higher? Hmm how? Well how about we enable it so the men are allowed to share accommodation with the women? Higher morale for our men And higher levels of sexual abuse for the women. Top marks all round I should say sir! Oh jolly good James, that is a great idea!

If the TW were to be sent to, say Afghanistan, would he be allowed to share with a female?

I've lost the attribution in my notes (Joe Wells?) but do you remember this helpful guidance?

TV Idea: #NotAllSnakes Men who say "Not All Men" are introduced to a variety of snakes. Not all of them are venomous.

Are they just trying to drive women out of the army and put off any others condsidering applying?

Added to which we'll be able to say it's women sexually assaulting other women, so the men won't get the blame!

Oh yes!! Triple win for our boys! They really are out performing on this one.

Bit of a non-story to be honest. It's been announced as if it's a new thing. 22 years ago there was a trans woman on initial officer training in the RAF who used all the female facilities including the communal showers in the gym etc. Other trans women in the military have had access to facilities for the gender in which they identify for years. This policy is just catching up with what's been happening anyway.