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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR on men in women's jails

161 replies

fromorbit · 20/02/2024 18:59

Another banger from the Queen of Twitter after she posted about the recent report on men in women's jails in Scotland.

The trans activist outrage that ensues on here whenever I share my belief that jailed women shouldn't be used as validation tools or emotional support props for trans-identified male sex offenders is as revealing as it's predictable.

Such activists can't bring themselves to concede that a man who was convicted of harming women/girls ought not to be incarcerated with the demographic to whom he is a proven danger, because if they do, all their stock arguments ('no sexual predator would bother to pretend to be trans', 'no trans woman has ever harmed a woman in a women's only space', 'there is no danger in making all single sex spaces unisex') are exposed as the lies they are. If they admit that even a single man isn't a woman because he says he is, the entire edifice of gender identity ideology crumbles. This leaves activists who rely on bullying and slogans with nowhere to go but 'you hate all trans people', 'so you're saying all trans people are rapists' and, of course, 'you are causing a trans genocide.'

I think this particular issue also causes conniptions because it threatens the activists' self image. These are people who preen themselves on their kindness and virtue, so acknowledging the truth - that they're indifferent to vulnerable women being assaulted or traumatised - threatens the idea they have of themselves. They therefore double down. The prisoners complaining aren't really afraid of rape or voyeurism or violence at all, they say. They're 'not exactly delicate flowers', as one self-identified empath put it.

If you support putting violent and sexually predatory men into women's prisons, you are knowingly forcing those women to live in fear of, and, in some proven cases, to suffer abuse that many of them will have endured pre-incarceration. You are not kind. You are not righteous. Women have the basic human right not to suffer cruel and unusual punishment. #WomensRightsAreHumanRights
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling

OP posts:
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Boiledbeetle · 23/02/2024 16:20

ButterflyHatched · 23/02/2024 16:16

How do you identify the prisoners that will harm prisoners from those that will not?

You can't. The best you can do is put all the men in the men's estate. And all the women in the women's estate. And segregate and categorise within the two estates depending on crime committed and risk to other prisoners.

What you don't do is put a man in with the women.

Ever.

It's dead simple really.

Propertylover · 23/02/2024 17:32

@ButterflyHatched @Boiledbeetle is right.

You cannot tell which men are rapists, peadophiles etc. so you need single sex spaces for females e.g. prisons, communal changing rooms.

RedToothBrush · 24/02/2024 10:08

ButterflyHatched · 23/02/2024 16:16

How do you identify the prisoners that will harm prisoners from those that will not?

Good question.

You are ALMOST there as to why women say no to all males in single sex spaces not just prisons.

No one can tell who the 'good ones' or the 'genuine ones' are. No one. That's the foundation stone of safeguarding - that you shouldn't just dismiss the risk because it's someone you know, like and trust. Everyone should be subject to rules which are pose the lowest risk profile to all, regardless of identity or socio-economic status.

This is also where accurate data collection matters to women.

If the data shows that males regardless of gender identity, pose a higher risk to women than women only, there's an issue. And that's exactly what the data - where biological sex not legal fictions is accurately recorded - shows.

Keep in mind the following:

The conviction rate for sex crimes is abysmal.

The number of cases the CPS put forward for trial is abysmal.

The number of women willing to put themselves through the trauma of a police investigation is tiny for good reason.

It's almost as if male pattern behaviour remains an issue to women after transition and this is the problem for women not just gender stereotypes based on appearance.

With this in mind, there is an issue for women here, which the prison figures, don't reveal the full scale of. Because statistics and reality are more relevant and important than this weird fantasy world which has been created by activists where all trans people are law abiding citizens who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Why do you think women are objecting to be being told they have to sacrifice their safety and their dignity to accommodate males in the spaces. Especially when the justification is about the safety of transwomen with absolutely no regards or thoughts to the safety and dignity of women?

Difficult question this one.

Have and use third spaces or transwomen deal with their own problems amongst themselves without making it a problem where women are the collateral damage and are harmed under the guise of 'protecting the most vulnerable in our society'.

This shouldn't be difficult to understand, but validation trumps everything and the implications to women are something that an merely a throwaway one line afterthought.

Yet again you are illustrating the point that your life experience and world view from a position that only a male can have (cos only males can be transwomen) is an issue. It's so self absorbed you don't see the risk that women see to themselves.

This isn't transphobia. This is a measureable risk that can be demonstrated with fairly robust evidence. It demonstrates that males will go to extreme lengths to gain access to vulnerable women if the system allows them to. But is framed as transphobia in an attempt to supress that data collection and evidence gathering and that is to the detriment of women only.

The only solution is to recognise there is a problem with any male in a female space and to act accordingly to prevent access regardless of identity and THEN to work out how you protect the more vulnerable males.

Rightsraptor · 25/02/2024 03:48

@ButterflyHatched asks how to identify prisoners who would harm other prisoners from those who would not.

Imagine a basket of ten snakes, Butterfly, and only one is poisonous. You can't tell which is which by just looking but It's really statistically fairly safe to plunge your hand into the basket, because the odds are against you getting bitten.

What's that you say? You don't think it's a good idea to plunge your hand into the basket? You're being very unreasonable.

fromorbit · 25/02/2024 21:31

JKR is winning twitter again...

JKR on men in women's jails
JKR on men in women's jails
OP posts:
SidewaysOtter · 25/02/2024 23:39

fromorbit · 25/02/2024 21:31

JKR is winning twitter again...

As ever, an absolute Queen!

BezMills · 26/02/2024 03:40

Queen for sure

Cosmosforbreakfast · 26/02/2024 06:56

Why do they even bother? Her replies just make them look even more stupid. She really is an utter legend.

fromorbit · 26/02/2024 07:43

Cosmosforbreakfast · 26/02/2024 06:56

Why do they even bother? Her replies just make them look even more stupid. She really is an utter legend.

They have to... if they let ONE woman be free to say what she wants without coming after her they know they have lost. Which is why she is so important. Women were doing what she does long before she came along of course, but she echoed all that on a bigger stage. The TRAs have to keep trying, and failing. The longer they fail to silence her the more her truth grows. The more women, and even men, she inspires.

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 26/02/2024 07:48

Rightsraptor · 25/02/2024 03:48

@ButterflyHatched asks how to identify prisoners who would harm other prisoners from those who would not.

Imagine a basket of ten snakes, Butterfly, and only one is poisonous. You can't tell which is which by just looking but It's really statistically fairly safe to plunge your hand into the basket, because the odds are against you getting bitten.

What's that you say? You don't think it's a good idea to plunge your hand into the basket? You're being very unreasonable.

It’s amazing to me that Butters has been posting on the internet since 1995 aged 12 arguing at the forefront of trans rights but only seems to ask questions lacking substance and get answers that are bleedin’ obvious. It’s almost as if it’s only Mumsnet that has ever offered any challenge to Butter’s world view in the last few years.

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 08:35

She's the TRA Kryptonite

BezMills · 26/02/2024 09:20

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 08:35

She's the TRA Kryptonite

So are Captain Facts, Supereality, Science Girl and Biologicus. There a lot of kryptonite about seems like

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 09:28

So are Captain Facts, Supereality, Science Girl and Biologicus. There a lot of kryptonite about seems like

Yep. You could be on to a new comic there!

Cosmosforbreakfast · 26/02/2024 09:41

Now there's a comic I'd buy! Maybe JK could branch out? I'd love another reason to support her.

Crankywiddershins · 26/02/2024 09:49

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 09:28

So are Captain Facts, Supereality, Science Girl and Biologicus. There a lot of kryptonite about seems like

Yep. You could be on to a new comic there!

Rise of the Superterf?

IcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2024 10:12

@Boiledbeetle we need a Superterf! D'you think AI would be willing to play?

Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 10:20

IcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2024 10:12

@Boiledbeetle we need a Superterf! D'you think AI would be willing to play?

The AI is a little too literal!

JKR on men in women's jails
RedToothBrush · 26/02/2024 10:20

From Wiki:

Veritas is the name given to the Roman virtue of truthfulness, which was considered one of the main virtues any good Roman should possess. The Greek goddess of truth is Aletheia. The German philosopher Martin Heidegger argues that the truth represented by aletheia (which essentially means "unconcealment") is different from that represented by Veritas, which is linked to a Roman understanding of rightness and finally to a Nietzschean sense of justice and a will to power.

In Roman mythology, Veritas, meaning Truth, is the Goddess of Truth, a daughter of Saturn (called Cronus by the Greeks, the Titan of Time, perhaps first by Plutarch), and the mother of Virtus. She is also sometimes considered the daughter of Jupiter (called Zeus by the Greeks), or a creation of Prometheus. The elusive goddess is said to have hidden in the bottom of a holy well. She is depicted both as a virgin dressed in white and as the "naked truth" (nuda veritas) holding a hand mirror.

I find it interesting that the truth was gendered as feminine by both the Romans and the Greeks who had a deep understanding of the principles of democracy and one of these gods was literally depicted naked with a mirror.

There is no irony in this. And it is for a reason.

Men throughout history have benefited from Authoritarianism and authoritarianism has always bought misery and suffering for women as they ended up at the bottom of a hierarchy. Throughout history, women have faired relatively better in liberal and democratic societies because there is not this rush to power in the same way which involves putting others down to push yourself up.

Women also were outside the realms of power so we're not deemed a threat in the same way.

In modern Russia Putin has had issues with Russian mothers demanding the truth about what happened to their sons and have, in the past, been one of the biggest thorns in his side. They haven't been a threat to overthrowing him but they have forced change in a way few others have achieved in previous wars.

It is fascinating to see historical representations of the truth and it's importance and how it holds power to account.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/02/2024 10:22

Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 10:20

The AI is a little too literal!

Thank you 🤣

It can't spell either.

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 10:24

Try JKR as a super hero, Boiled.

NotBadConsidering · 26/02/2024 10:25

Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 10:20

The AI is a little too literal!

🤣🤣🤣 that IS the most super turf I have ever seen. I imagine playing sport on it is like running on clouds🤣🤣

Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 10:26

BezMills · 26/02/2024 09:20

So are Captain Facts, Supereality, Science Girl and Biologicus. There a lot of kryptonite about seems like

Coming to a comic store near you soon

JKR on men in women's jails
Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 10:28

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 10:24

Try JKR as a super hero, Boiled.

!

JKR on men in women's jails
DialSquare · 26/02/2024 10:28

Booooo

Boiledbeetle · 26/02/2024 10:33

DialSquare · 26/02/2024 10:28

Booooo

"Woman with long red hair holding a book looking like a superhero"

JKR on men in women's jails
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