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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reason #1006 why women’s sport is different: Paris Olympics: Athlete’s plea to let baby stay in village is refused

64 replies

BettyFilous · 20/02/2024 07:39

Paris Olympics: Athlete’s plea to let baby stay in village is refused.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7f644d1-82f6-401d-93b1-625b30c2f459?shareToken=0ee1421564257282ed7ef4f5ede1f855

Clarisse sounds like a terrific athlete and very committed to her sport, returning to competition 5 months after giving birth. What a shame they don’t take the needs of mothers into account when designing the athletes’ village. I hope she does well and her Olympic experience isn’t diminished by having to stay off-site.

Paris Olympics: Athlete’s plea to let baby stay in village is refused

Clarisse Agbégnénou wanted to breastfeed her daughter overnight but children of competitors are only allowed into the residential complex in the daytime with a guest pass

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7f644d1-82f6-401d-93b1-625b30c2f459?shareToken=0ee1421564257282ed7ef4f5ede1f855

OP posts:
HagoftheNorth · 20/02/2024 08:41

So, it’s ok for men to compete in women’s events, but heaven forbid that anything would be done to accommodate mothers

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 09:31

Are the olympics accepting males in female events?

Emotionalsupportviper · 20/02/2024 09:37

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 09:31

Are the olympics accepting males in female events?

Laurel Hubbard was allowed to compete in the weightlifting.

I don't doubt that there are others.

BellaAmorosa · 20/02/2024 09:43

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 09:31

Are the olympics accepting males in female events?

Short answer is yes. Subject to testosterone reduction requirements which are minimally overseen and monitored. And there have been several.

fedupandstuck · 20/02/2024 09:45

It's hardly a huge adjustment, as presumably she just needs a room to herself and permission for the child to be there, rather than sharing a room with another athlete.

Wouldn't it be great if these organisations could be relied upon to just sort it out, rather than put the onus on the individual woman to work out a way of working around the unnecessary barriers.

Ingenieur · 20/02/2024 09:46

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 09:31

Are the olympics accepting males in female events?

Here is a list of openly-trans athleteswho competed at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics

https://thesportsgrail.com/list-of-the-transgender-athletes-competing-at-tokyo-olympics-2020/

Quinn is a woman, but the rest are men.

In addition, at the Rio Olympics in 2016, all three medallists in the women's 800m have male bodies.

Transgender Athletes Olympics

List Of The Transgender Athletes Competing At Tokyo Olympics 2020

The 2020 Tokyo Olympics have had around 160 queer athletes competing. Here are the first openly transgender athletes who marked their presence at the Olympics Tokyo Olympics 2020 saw the number of …

https://thesportsgrail.com/list-of-the-transgender-athletes-competing-at-tokyo-olympics-2020

Codlingmoths · 20/02/2024 09:55

HagoftheNorth · 20/02/2024 08:41

So, it’s ok for men to compete in women’s events, but heaven forbid that anything would be done to accommodate mothers

This. It’s not even like the Olympic village is adults only, there are enough minors competing. All adjustments and allowances for men, none for mothers.

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 10:31

Ingenieur · 20/02/2024 09:46

Here is a list of openly-trans athleteswho competed at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics

https://thesportsgrail.com/list-of-the-transgender-athletes-competing-at-tokyo-olympics-2020/

Quinn is a woman, but the rest are men.

In addition, at the Rio Olympics in 2016, all three medallists in the women's 800m have male bodies.

In which case this makes women’s events in the Olympic Games pointless. What a catastrophe for women and women’s sport. This goes against all idea of fair play. Why bother having women’s Olympic sports at all if men can swan in and take over.
This is so utterly categorically wrong I’m not sure where to begin.

PatatiPatatras · 20/02/2024 10:52

Just get a trans woman athlete to demand breastfeeding facilities at the Olympics. Job done. Well, symptom cured in the very least.

NotBadConsidering · 20/02/2024 10:53

BellaAmorosa · 20/02/2024 09:43

Short answer is yes. Subject to testosterone reduction requirements which are minimally overseen and monitored. And there have been several.

The IOC has made no declaration on any rules, they have left it to individual sports and not every sport has set in place such requirements. So across the entire Olympic programme, there could well be males competing who have done nothing to their testosterone levels. We won’t know until it happens.

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 11:34

The IOC need to step up and defend women’s rights and fair play in all women’s Olympic categories. Biological Females only. That is the only coherent and fair sporting approach to such a fundamental part of sporting competition.
Without any research, I can only guess that the IOC is male dominated and as such has no interest in women’s rights. In fact quite the opposite in lots of cases.

Lion400 · 20/02/2024 11:38

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidentof_the_International_Olympic_Committee

Indeed everyone a male.

There are women on the IOC committee but that looks quite toothless and a bit of a tea party in real life.

President of the International Olympic Committee - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_International_Olympic_Committee

BellaAmorosa · 20/02/2024 12:08

Going back to Clarisse Agbégnénou, I'd like to know if she is a single mum? Does the child have a loving father (or other family member) who could bottle feed her Clarisse's expressed milk?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but is breastfeeding essential at two? (Or two and a half/three as she will be by the end of July.) I ask because the little girl is only breastfed at night anyway, it would seem, and the way Clarisse talks about this she emphasises the benefit to herself, rather than the child.

If there are single rooms, overnight stays could be managed, but from what I've heard, the athletes usually share rooms or even small dorms. It's not fair to inflict a cranky or a super-inquisitive toddler on another athlete who may have sleep problems or be in a very emotional state herself. Or she might secretly hate kids!

I'm reminded of a case with an Icelandic footballer who claimed unfair discrimination against her French club after she got pregnant and had a baby. I was right with her until she said she had had to insist that the child travelled to and from away games with her. This means a baby on a coach or aeroplane with the other players who are supposed to be recuperating from the match - the trip home is counted as recovery time. It's not fair. She has a husband, she is the main earner in their relationship and she could have left the little boy at home with her DH for away games. That's on average once or twice a week max for a top club. It's one thing for a mother or father to centre their own child but this Icelandic footballer was introducing her baby into a situation that it did not belong - work - to the possible detriment of her teammates. Emma Hayes (Chelsea manager) took her twins in a push chair to training, but I hope we can all see that that was different - most of it in the open air, relatively stress free.

Anyway, I think creches are the answer:
..officials have come under pressure to open a daytime facility for babies and toddler children within the village — enabling athletes who sleep there to spend time with their young children, according to supporters of the plan.
Costs to be borne by the IOC who have shedloads of cash so as not to disadvantage mothers from poorer countries.

I think having day passes for kids which are taken out of the national allocation could lead to some very nasty situations.
In practice, children will be allowed into the Olympic Village for daytime visits if they are issued with guest passes delivered by national delegations. But given that each delegation has a fixed number of passes ― France, for instance, will have about 60 a day ― there is likely to be tension if they are handed to children instead of, say, personal coaches, according to observers in Paris.

fedupandstuck · 20/02/2024 12:57

It's specifically about the overnights, from the article. This child is accustomed to being fed at night, probably fed to sleep. It's not the norm but it's not uniquely unusual.

The point is though, that she is doing something which is a normal thing for a woman to potentially do, and that should be something which is easily catered for. Not just left to each individual woman to try to negotiate.

Believerinbiology · 20/02/2024 13:05

What kind of world do we live in that a woman not only has to fight for this but also even has people on this thread questioning whether a woman is right or not to breastfeed. I despair!

Tinysoxxx · 20/02/2024 13:12

If she’s still feeding it’s the problem that she may get engorged which will be a problem with running. Some women don’t get on with pumps but I suppose she’s going to have to now.

RoseAndRose · 20/02/2024 13:20

She'll be fine staying off site.
It's a pretty common choice for athletes to make anyway (lots prefer to stay with their partner/family - who are allowed in to visit in Olympic Villages but are not permitted to stay in them)

I don't know what the likely level of demand is for parent/baby rooms. If it's more than once-in-a-blue-moon, then there should be provision.

BellaAmorosa · 20/02/2024 13:43

believerinbiology & fedupandstuck

Clarisse says it's great for her. Not her toddler, her own chances in the competition.

She can't be accommodated this time around, so she can either start getting her child used to not breastfeeding at night sometimes (she's got four or five months to ease the child in and try expressing, or stay offsite. If the organisers were saying she had to stay onsite and there were no single rooms for her to have her daughter with her, or there was no day nursery provision, I would be more sympathetic. She can't have everything. She wants the atmosphere of the village, understandably, but sometimes parents have to make sacrifices and this doesn't seem like a big one.

Would you castigate Clarisse if she'd gone on holiday for a week without her child? I wouldn't.

fedupandstuck · 20/02/2024 13:55

I don't think it's relevant whether it's for the benefit of the mother or the child or both. It would just be ideal for once, if a woman doing something totally normal for a woman, could be simply and quickly accommodated. Doesn't matter if it's not a frequent request. And it's not parents that have to sacrifice, it's specifically only going to apply to women, clearly. And if that's a big deal, that would cause people to object, then I'd happily allow any man who is the primary caregiver of a baby or toddler, to be accommodated if they request it because for whatever reason they would find it difficult to be separated at night. I guess the take up on that might be zero though.

Emotionalsupportviper · 20/02/2024 14:07

fedupandstuck · 20/02/2024 09:45

It's hardly a huge adjustment, as presumably she just needs a room to herself and permission for the child to be there, rather than sharing a room with another athlete.

Wouldn't it be great if these organisations could be relied upon to just sort it out, rather than put the onus on the individual woman to work out a way of working around the unnecessary barriers.

Wonder what the the response would have been to the request if it had been a "chest feeding" transwoman athlete who had asked . . .

Believerinbiology · 20/02/2024 14:08

I can't read the article so can't comment on what she said. She may not have listed off the benefits for her child as she may assume they are universally known. This is not a "one off" or isolated incident. It is a known issue for women and their children that is simply deemed insignificant by the decision makers. Tokyo reversed it's decision not to accommodate nursing mothers but unfortunately it did so too late for some who either pulled out/made alternative arrangements/weaned earlier than they had wanted. More and more women are continuing their sporting careers after they give birth and they should be accommodated.

GoodHeavens99 · 20/02/2024 14:08

fedupandstuck · 20/02/2024 09:45

It's hardly a huge adjustment, as presumably she just needs a room to herself and permission for the child to be there, rather than sharing a room with another athlete.

Wouldn't it be great if these organisations could be relied upon to just sort it out, rather than put the onus on the individual woman to work out a way of working around the unnecessary barriers.

That would be inclusive.

Emotionalsupportviper · 20/02/2024 14:08

PatatiPatatras · 20/02/2024 10:52

Just get a trans woman athlete to demand breastfeeding facilities at the Olympics. Job done. Well, symptom cured in the very least.

Hadn't seen your post and have just made a similar comment.

BellaAmorosa · 20/02/2024 14:22

It does matter for whose benefit it is. Clarisse says it's for her. I'm not implying she's being selfish. Even if it was for the little girl - let's say you're right and she can't go to sleep without the feed - at some stage Clarisse would have to start weaning the child completely.

We're not talking about a tiny baby here. The child eats solid food. This is about bonding. This summer could be a great opportunity to bond with its father, or granny or godmother or any other significant adult in her life. And crucially, Clarisse has time - it's not like the Olympics is next week or next month.
She has opted for offsite accommodation, hopefully paid for or subsidised by the IOC, as a good compromise. I do agree that a small number of single occupancy rooms should be planned for in the accommodation as well, but the providers will not be able to ensure an exact fit with all the potential users, so some mums will not be able to be accommodated in the athletes' village and younger children's mothers should take priority.

As you said yourself, breastfeeding a 2-3-year-old is also something that mothers don't do.

Would Clarisse be a terrible mother if she went away on holiday for a week or even a weekend without her toddler? Because that's where you're going with this.

Emotionalsupportviper · 20/02/2024 14:31

As you said yourself, breastfeeding a 2-3-year-old is also something that mothers don't do.

I did it.

Twice.