Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

1000 replies

bottomsup12 · 16/02/2024 11:35

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Mirrorimagemenopause · 16/02/2024 22:28

Absolutely not!

Thelnebriati · 16/02/2024 23:30

Single sex facilities are provided to meet a need created by sex. It has nothing to do with gender identity.
Single sex facilities don't exist to validate peoples feelings, and describing women as 'hateful' or 'phobic' for needing them to remain single sex is prejudiced.

Floisme · 17/02/2024 07:26

No I do not. Women's and girls' spaces are for females everywhere, both now and in the future. They're for safety, dignity and they enable some women - maybe not you but maybe your neighbour or the woman who serves you at the checkout - to go out and take up their place in the world. Even if you don't value them yourself, please don't give them away - they don't belong to you.

PP82 · 17/02/2024 09:11

I'm what you might call 'aggressively pro.'

I've been sexually assaulted in women's toilets by cis men who didn't bother to 'dress up' as women, they just opened the door and got on with it. I'm under no illusion that 'single sex spaces' are a guarantee of safety.

I've shared toilets and changing rooms with trans women and been perfectly comfortable. No reason not to be.

334bu · 17/02/2024 09:14

I've shared toilets and changing rooms with trans women and been perfectly comfortable. No reason not to be.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
Think Isla Bryson's victims might disagree with you.

Froodwithatowel · 17/02/2024 09:18

PP82 · 17/02/2024 09:11

I'm what you might call 'aggressively pro.'

I've been sexually assaulted in women's toilets by cis men who didn't bother to 'dress up' as women, they just opened the door and got on with it. I'm under no illusion that 'single sex spaces' are a guarantee of safety.

I've shared toilets and changing rooms with trans women and been perfectly comfortable. No reason not to be.

Yet again, that's lovely for you! I'm so pleased you're ok.

Now what do you suggest we do with all the women who aren't?

Havingashittyarthritisday · 17/02/2024 09:19

No. That's all.

WickedSerious · 17/02/2024 09:24

Froodwithatowel · 17/02/2024 09:18

Yet again, that's lovely for you! I'm so pleased you're ok.

Now what do you suggest we do with all the women who aren't?

I doubt this is covered in the 'aggressively pro' manifesto.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/02/2024 09:31

Is aggressively pro just letting in all men?

WickedSerious · 17/02/2024 09:43

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/02/2024 09:31

Is aggressively pro just letting in all men?

Or absolutely(dare I say aggressively) insisting that they come in,whether they like it or not.

BackCats · 17/02/2024 09:57

No.

I think the women of a certain age who support it are thinking of their own sons and how they felt it was silly when they got above a certain age and could no longer come into the changing room or toilets with her or his sisters any more - feeling that anxiety about him going in with the ‘big men’.

There are also an awful lot of ‘do-gooders’ - people who make a habit of doing something charitable and instead of being ‘rebels without a cause’ are far more dangerous ‘do-gooders without a cause’. During the lockdowns I joined a few online groups and where we would think of schemes and so on to give us a sense of purpose. There would always be two or three women who don’t see the illogicality, unlikelihood or the physical impossibility of being ‘born in the wrong body’ and who want to pour all their energy into project ‘helping trans kids and their families’. You only need 0.5% of all the do-gooders in the world latching onto that purpose and it can do huge social damage.

FrancescaContini · 17/02/2024 10:03

No. Never.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/02/2024 10:06

WickedSerious · 17/02/2024 09:43

Or absolutely(dare I say aggressively) insisting that they come in,whether they like it or not.

😆😆😆

FrancescaContini · 17/02/2024 10:11

Yes, I thought that the use of “aggressively” was very interesting too, if not inappropriate when talking about sexual assault.

LimeViewer · 17/02/2024 10:22

The tra's are very aggressive abput it though, saying women who don't allow it should be raped and die in a fire as if that's a reasonable response to stating a fact that it is legal to believe. Is there any other way to be pro trans without the extreme aggression and hatred towards natal women!? I've never really see it apart from gc women on here who tend to be pro trans within reason, ie wear what you want but use the right toilets.

PP82 · 17/02/2024 10:57

Froodwithatowel · 17/02/2024 09:18

Yet again, that's lovely for you! I'm so pleased you're ok.

Now what do you suggest we do with all the women who aren't?

I'm sure lots of white women in the southern States of the USA in the 50s and 60s weren't comfortable sharing facilities with African American women. Should they have been pandered to, or did they in fact just need to get over it?

JanesLittleGirl · 17/02/2024 11:15

PP82 · 17/02/2024 10:57

I'm sure lots of white women in the southern States of the USA in the 50s and 60s weren't comfortable sharing facilities with African American women. Should they have been pandered to, or did they in fact just need to get over it?

I think that irrelevant card has already been played.

RinklyRomaine · 17/02/2024 11:18

@PP82 are you suggesting black American women were or are in any way a comparable risk to the sex who commit 98% of all predatory and violent crime? Really?

WickedSerious · 17/02/2024 11:18

JanesLittleGirl · 17/02/2024 11:15

I think that irrelevant card has already been played.

And I'm sure it'll be played again before the day is over.

DuesToTheDirt · 17/02/2024 11:32

heathspeedwell · 16/02/2024 15:42

About a decade ago my local council introduced unisex changing rooms at the swimming pool. Everyone said how great they would be because it would make it easier for dads to take their kids swimming. I naively didn't foresee it would be a problem.

One day my female friend and I were getting dressed after our swim when we heard a strange sound. A man had come into the cubicle next to us and wedged his head under the gap so he could watch us and he was enthusiastically masturbating. We used to go swimming every week but we stopped after that.

The sad fact is that sexual assaults are 9 times more likely to occur in mixed sex changing rooms. This figure has been confirmed in various newspapers.

Proof that a sign on the door DOES keep out bad men, or at least some of them.

What did you do? (I'm hoping you kicked him in the face.)

Peskysquirrel · 17/02/2024 11:36

PP82 · 17/02/2024 10:57

I'm sure lots of white women in the southern States of the USA in the 50s and 60s weren't comfortable sharing facilities with African American women. Should they have been pandered to, or did they in fact just need to get over it?

Why do some people think this racist "argument" is such a gotcha?

It just doesn't prove what you think it proves. Stop using race to make your ill-thought-out point.

Froodwithatowel · 17/02/2024 12:00

The only way the 'race' argument would work, is if sex segregation ended. Activists are perfectly happy for men and women to have men and women's spaces so long as men can identity in to the presence of non consenting women in a state of undress and vulnerability. (Or with exciting sexual histories.)

It also skirts inconvenient reality. Black people were black, not identifying as anything and trying to force others to validate a fiction. Men wishing to use women's spaces remain men, whatever their dress, language and surgery choices.

And it completely sets aside the racism of requiring that women whose beliefs, faiths and cultures just abandon them. (Because they are unhelpful to the sexual freedoms and self expression of men.)

There is no social justice or equality or care anywhere in this, so weaponising the historic injustices of American black people is a bit..... er.... well. It's not classy, is it?

BusyMummy001 · 17/02/2024 12:30

A few years ago I happily shared a gym changing room, dried my hair and did my makeup with a trans woman who almost passed. I wasn’t worried - at the time I assumed they had transitioned as a result of years, decades perhaps, of therapy after significant trauma and that transitioning was their last resort at having something akin to a normal life and better mental health. I still feel deep empathy for such quietly, fully-transitioned souls just trying to go about their lives under the radar.

But changing rooms and bathrooms now, though? Now that ‘trans’ means any male who has decided in the last couple of minutes that they are female - without therapy, surgery or any long-term commitment to deal with their trauma and often merely on the basis of misogynistic, sexualised perversions - it’s a huge no.

I’ve watched my DD wrestle with self hatred caused by an anti autistic/ lesbophobic culture that made her feel isolated, ugly and unlikeable - who, with eff all help available from CAMHS, came to the conclusion she was trans. 6 years of self harming and severe MH has not softened me to the toxicity of this movement. She has felt afraid of being female, of men in her space, of failing to achieve idealised levels of feminine beauty - all driven by the men in this movement. Fortunately, as she has got older, she has realised that trying to be a man does not protect her from them and, in fact, exposes her to even more repugnant examples of manhood, so is slowly desisting.

So, no, I do not want to share a bathroom or changing room with them. I want them to stay where they belong - dressing up in their bedrooms with consenting adults or, ideally, in psychiatric care.

Helleofabore · 17/02/2024 12:58

PP82 · 17/02/2024 10:57

I'm sure lots of white women in the southern States of the USA in the 50s and 60s weren't comfortable sharing facilities with African American women. Should they have been pandered to, or did they in fact just need to get over it?

I see another poster who is using the false equivalence of race.

Under the EA2010, there is provision made for organisations to make use of exceptions that are considered legitimate forms of discrimination. While you are quite right in that excluding male people from female single sex spaces is discrimination, perhaps you need to analyse what is legitimate and what is not. Surely you understand that there is also positive and negative discrimination.

Your equivalence is clearly illegitimate discrimination because there was no need for those women to exclude the other women. At all. That makes that negative discrimination.

Due to the proven safeguarding risks, and the nature of female people being uncomfortable being in a vulnerable state when a male person is there, single sex spaces are a 'legitimate act of discimination'. ie. it is for the safety, privacy and dignity of female people. This is NOT like racism.

I cannot quite conceive how you ever felt it was appropriate to use that as an example because it could be said that your act of doing so was weaponising a group's oppression for your own political agenda. Did you think of that before you posted it?

Not quite the 'gotcha' you first believed, eh?

LimeViewer · 17/02/2024 12:59

The race gotcha is weird. It's like they think black women actually are different to other women for it to make sense. As if black women are as different to white women as men are to women. Which is 💯 racist.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.