Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

Now you just seem completely out of touch to be honest.

You have just proven that you know nothing about the current cohort of teenagers at all. You have just proven that it is you who are narrow minded and are the epitome of that word you have thrown around there, a 'bigot'.

I think what these last x pages have actually shown is that you don't really have any evidence for your claims, and you seem to lack the ability to think outside your very own narrowly defined views of absolutist and polarised thinking.

FFS. For some if us, left wing does not mean living quietly as obedient citizens under a centre left government.

The reference to body-shame by PPwotnot is sadly ironic considering how many girls think they're 'trans' because they have issues with their female bodies. TW, as usual with loud incel-type males, take up 99% of the 'space' in the discussion, but girls identifying with this shit are struggling massively with the effects of neurodiversity and serious mental health issues - as opposed to the TW who have some mental health issues and a lot of male entitlement.

I don't have a choice. I'm too old to receive such treatment on the public system. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't have a child?

You are entirely misinformed and you don't seem to be able to understand reality vs utopian theory.

Your version of Utopia only can exist under a fully centralised government where 'countries' become states. I think you are now saying things that show that you can't cope with the reality of the world as it is and you cling to a vision that you will insist the world follows but the world never will.

What is worse though, is that you feel the authoritarian in you feels completely free to then denigrate all who disagree with you. You talk of 'fascists', maybe you could look that up sometime.

@PP82

Would you tell a trans woman who wanted to use women's facilities due to their discomfort using facilities around natal men that they were fascists and tell them you're astonished that they live their life in fear of men?

No, I didn't say anything of the sort but it doesn't surprise me you would put words in my mouth like that.

I'm saying you said you don't agree with private healthcare - until it suits you. Until your wants become more important than your principles. Principles that you are lecturing others about.
As I said, contradictions.

Well said

Yes - if you genuinely believe capitalism should be resisted at all costs and minorities should be protected.

I know of many older women who have made the decision NOT to go down the assisted pregnancy route precisely because it involved the exploitation of women (it’s never wealthy middle class women donating their eggs is it?) and because they feel their desire to have a child is being exploited by corporate medical bodies.

You try to talk the talk, but the only rights and dignities you are prepared to sacrifice in pursuance of your ideals are those of other women. Not your own.

Couldn’t help myself.

I am going back to work now - supporting fascism by researching maternal experience, particularly that where ND children are involved, and the negative cultural narrative that surrounds it as communicated in crime fiction… all hail the patriarchy!

🤪

You could adopt a child rather than choose to exploit another woman.

I think you have again shown that you lack the understanding of what 'freedom of movement as a basic human right' means in the human rights manifesto.

Perhaps you can start evidencing your claims with evidence such as the reference that you have learned this 'basic human right' so we can see what it says about the constitutional rights of countries in this regard.

tbh, there’s no point I arguing with people who will make statements that simply aren’t true with absolute certainty - and sit in moral judgement of those who think differently or will just question your statements. (E.g. there is no basic human right to freedom of movement between countries; absolutely no country wants that. Saying it with angry conviction doesn’t make it the case. And claiming anyone who doesn’t just take your word for it is a racist and bigot doesn’t make your statement true).

I can see why you personally need to believe that biology is just rhetoric and nonsense and no human should be constrained by it @PP82. You’ve given us plenty of information here to understand why you need to believe biology is a choice on this thread.

ooh... I would be hugely interested in your research.

@JacksonLambsEatIvy
'making statements that simply aren't true with absolute certainty'. This made me laugh. My DP is a great bloke, absolutely lovely and as invested in women's rights as I am (genuinely, since he's fighting for DD as well as me) BUT oh the absolute certainty with which he occasionally talks nonsense at me 🤣.
If anyone ever needed a non-biological, non-intellectual reason as to why TW are Not W, they would just have to listen to the tone of their proclamations! Utter drivel stated with utter certainty 😂

Thank you - am hoping the end result ( a novel and a thesis ) might lead to a discussion amongst publishers, scriptwriters and authors about the lazy reliance on blaming the mother that seems to form the backstory for every psychopath/sociopath/criminal and dysfunctional male detective. It’s 2024, and we still peddle the narrative that abusive husbands, criminality, psychopathy is a result of their mums having a pit of PND and attachment issues… once you’ve spotted it, you’ll never watch a crime drama or read a crime novel again without it slapping you around the face.

Given that most consumers of crime fiction/drama are middle class women aged 30-60, it beggars belief that we put up with it…

I will be looking for beta readers for the novel eventually, so will post here when recruiting!

Pesky, I think you mean PP not OP. Although, they could be the same, in which case report because that would be sock puppeting

Awesome !

No. I understand this. Can you tell us what extreme left wing government models have worked to improve the world exactly?

Or have you developed one for yourself based on dreams of utopia?

So…. You choose to exploit another woman’s fertility. Yet are an extreme left wing idealist?

And you call us bigots?

I think we can all see there is some very disconnected thinking here.

What has become apparent though is that it seems to be that a poster who is very focused on individual needs, particularly their own, claims to be for a collectivist society?

The discordance is striking. And as for their complete lack of understanding of current teenagers yet making generalisations about them, it just fits with someone who has constructed their own alternative reality based on misinformation. or has mistaken aspiration for reality maybe?

All this thread has shown me is that the aggressively left wing lobby is deeply misogynistic. It claims to care more about: the freedom of movement for immigrants (mainly males with criminal connections, because everyone else applied for work permits/visa based on their professional qualifications and enters legally); to care about males identifying as women (trans men’s access to mens loos not having been discussed here); to care about the rights of men to remain overnight on maternity wards where their wives may actually prefer space and privacy, not to mention the rights of other women in those spaces and their babies; it believes capitalism is evil, unless the state funded medical services won’t give them what they want, in which case its fine to exploit marginalised and impoverish women to harvest their eggs and benefit from private medical care; it disregards the concerns of women of ethnic and religious minority groups seeking privacy and dignity; it derides the concerns of female survivors of CSA or DV.

Wow. I’m beginning to think that maybe I am an alt-right fascist after all.

😳

I've been binge watching a lot of crime drama recently and can confirm that the mother hatred is strong. And from my other viewing, I can also confirm that it's not confined to crime drama.

Nah! I can understand some people desiring to believe that utopian society exists as a possibility. It is a defense mechanism for the current state of society, for the disillusioned and traumatised.

I can also understand that for people to remain in that state of belief they need to portray everyone who disagrees or who presents a threat to that utopia in a polarised manner. It is always interesting to see it cross into such disordered thinking.