Avanti trains tonedeaf menopause insult

[Jeannne92]

Who thought this was OK?!

Patronising, virtue signalling. Would be interesting to know the sex/ age of whoever signed that off.

If you look three or four posts about yours (or Avanti's response in the link in the OP ) you will read the context. If you do, you will find that you're last sentence is absolutely addressed within them, and that that sort is available to their employees.

Why is no-one reading either of the links supplied? It was a female employee's idea.

Let's face it, a distressing number of women like twee humour. It's not a man thing usually.

As a post-menopausal woman, I can't get worked up about this. I wouldn't mind receiving it. We are in danger of becoming a damned if you do, damned if you don't culture.

An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said: 'This is a gift bag designed and created by our own in-house Menopause Support Group and derived from a suggestion from a colleague based on her own personal experience

For @ThePoshUns

I’d rather just get an email saying ‘if you need time off or any support, speak to HR’

It seems Avanti staff get both.

It's not an either/or if you read the link. Which virtually no-one on this thread seems to be arsed enough to do.

This is how misinformation spreads, FFS. If have thought better of Mumsnetters.

It’s still a twee piece of rubbish.

Of course. I seem to be surrounded by twee rubbish these days and I'm allergic.

But the context is important and it turns out that all the assumptions on here (it's all they're doing about menopause/it must be a stupid man's idea) are wrong.

It’s the gift version of ‘Calm down, dear’.

It’s so stereotyping, like saying all women eat ice cream and chocolate, and cry continuously when they have a period.

This is how misinformation spreads, FFS. If have thought better of Mumsnetters.

To be fair, I first saw this because of a tweet from the union and I stand by my comment that it's shit because it helps perpetuate the stereotype that menopausal women are irrational and emotional.

I think it depends on how the recipients of the bag were selected. Handed out to any female employees of a certain age would be offensive. Made available to a self selected group of women attending a menopause support group is fine.

"A lot of women like twee humour". Twee gets a hard time on Mumsnet. MumsNet humour tends to be more, um, robust.

Shouldn't the bag include free inco pads and a subscription to Squezy?

(I'll get my coat)

It is part of a much wider and well-used package of support provided by Avanti West Coast as part of our commitment to be a proud Menopause Friendly Employer.

A lot of menopausal and perimenopausal women on this site and elsewhere that I've spoken to don't like this new focus on the menopause, as rightly or wrongly they feel it undermines the position of women in the workplace and elsewhere. Just because it was designed by a woman doesn't necessarily make it appropriate for other women. I can see both sides.

I guess it was created by someone why hasn’t had menopausal horrors.

the rage, the memory loss, the draining exhaustion, insomnia, depression, general feeling of crappiness…

it seems to trivialise it ‘there there dear’ like when you see ads for period products ‘aww you just need some choccy and a hot water bottle’.

but then I’m unwell myself and ready to rip anyone’s head off who trivialises my symptoms!

I stand by my comment that it's shit because it helps perpetuate the stereotype that menopausal women are irrational and emotional.

And I agree.

The problem with menopause (and this is a bit of a tangent) is that women are asking employers for support and recognition because menopause does make them vulnerable and make them struggle at times.

And as in this case, women do tend to perpetuate this view. There will be thousands of posts on Mumsnet over the years, where women feel that they're losing their minds during menopause. Having violent mood swings etc.

We can't really ask for support for these reasons and then complain when (as in this case) other women find some humour in it, and so perpetuate it.

As I say, I dislike it. But I'm struggling to make a logical argument to say that it's wrong.

I can see both sides.

Yeah me too, really.

Although I do think giving a jelly baby to a menopausal woman so she doesn't bite your own head off is a little like, oh, ignore her mood, she's on her period.

The thing is, you're fucked either way, because of sexism.

Support is good, but the publicity leads to discrimination.

But, long time, that just has to be dealt with. Like every other biological issue women face.

FFS

I'm their target demographic.
I hate it.
So many patronising assumptions.

Clearly designed by some bright, young, (probably male) thing - the type of person like my friend's like manager who asked her if she had anything fun planned for the time she was signed off sick after her emergency hysterectomy.

I'm all for raising menopause awareness amongst managers. Recognition of potential health problems, poor sleep etc and associated work adjustments such as flexible working. I am all not for landfill filling, twee crap like this.

We can't really ask for support for these reasons and then complain when
(as in this case) other women find some humour in it, and so perpetuate it.

I can 😀 Some jokes we only make among ourselves. Twee or not, this kind of "humour" is not for a professional workplace setting. Then it becomes a putdown.

Well how do they know when to give then? Reach 40 and you get one?

But I'll take the jelly baby if Avanti give all their menopausal women employees free gym sessions to counter osteoporosis.

Hate it. I hate this kind of shit anyway though. Pointless landfilling crap. They'd be better giving a pack of info to useful websites or honestly promoting the message that this is a real health issue that they are robustly supporting. It doesn't need a bloody organza bag of crap

This is what my employer does, and I am really proud if them for that. All line managers get menopause awareness training

Was it given to menopausal women? Yes it was. What misinformation do you think we are spreading?

It is a fucking patronising thoughtless thing to give out that resembles a pat on the head while telling women that the company understands. I don’t care that it was then given at a menopause seminar. So what. It perpetuates some ridiculous stereotypes.

A jelly bean for when you are feeling like biting someone’s head off? A paper clip so you can hold it together?

What, did all of a sudden a mature woman somehow need to be told ‘calm down dear’ you aren’t rational or able to politely articulate your disagreement despite the seething hormonal swings you feel. Did we become toddlers over night?

Obviously, we need a pencil to remember that we aren’t.

I don’t care if some menopausal woman thought it was brilliant. It doesn’t matter if it was put together on another menopausal woman’s recommendations. It doesn’t matter that there is a whole raft of great initiatives the company does. This was a misstep.

As a menopausal woman, one who has had very crap sleep today, this is patronising. Saying it is just ‘cute humour’ is just dismissing how patronising it is. Humour can be patronising don’t forget. And this ‘humour’ plays on stereotypal trope.

No thanks, I have dealt with homornal driven emotions at work for decades. I think I can safely say I can perform professionally at work and not bite someone’s head off, or break apart. I can also remember things when I need to, I am responsible enough to have my own methods of organising myself and haven’t managed to let things slip. I don’t need anyone, even a fucking menopause committee to pat me on the head with this shite.

We have no confirmation at all that it was even menopausal women on that committee. My husbands large organisations have menopause seminars delivered by 20 something men.

Or, should I just grab that fucking tissue that they included because I am obviously overly emotional?

We can't really ask for support for these reasons and then complain when (as in this case) other women find some humour in it

Yes. We can. We can point out that some women might find it funny or sweet because they either embrace stereotypes or they find humour in patronisation or repeating patronising trope. For whatever reason. That is them. This could be ‘cute’ to give to a friend.

It was never appropriate in a workplace seminar. And if it was meant to ‘bust’ the stereotypes and platitudes then it failed dismissally. Because it mixed up things like ‘having a fan’ and ‘having a cup of tea’ which are practical things that are effective with patronising shit.