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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boycott JL and Waitrose? : James Esses' latest Substack on John Lewis LGBTQIA++ 'Identity' mag

289 replies

PersephoneSeethes · 15/02/2024 18:31

I saw it this afternoon on Twitter and read the article with utter horror.

I was hoping it would be uplifting stories about people being accepted and living full lives

John Lewis and Waitrose are seemingly actively promoting and policing
pronoun usage by colleagues, Stasi-style. This seems like it is a court case, a-la-Forstater, waiting to happen.

They have an article about 'raising non-binary and transgender children', not from an information position in case Partners come across such families in their stores, but with a heavy activist slant.

I think I have finally been pushed to the edge with this beloved company. I can no longer shop with them, and I shop at Waitrose every week for our main shop, have done for over a decade.

This is a real gut punch because I believe in what Waitrose does, or used to do: they pay their farmers better, their animal welfare is better, their shops don't have the bright lights and loud noises that set off my migraines and irritate family members autistic temperaments. But as someone who grew up a tomboy, and would have been thrown under the gender bus by Stonewall and all the other organisations if I had been a child today, I can't stand by and accept all this nonsense.

OP posts:
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CrystalSea · 18/02/2024 13:50

I’ve found a website where the exhibition launch is still up and archived it.

http://archive.today/pIwBg

Crikeyalmighty · 18/02/2024 13:53

Out of interest has all this inclusiveness at JL included features and exhibitions on physical disability or mental health etc- I am convinced many of these trendy people in comms prefer focussing on LGBT as it makes for more funky pictures and gives them a more youthful feel- - and I'm not right wing or Tory- but I am anti focussing on LGBT and particularly the T to the exclusion of other issues that affect far far more of the population.

dapsnotplimsolls · 18/02/2024 13:54

Interesting, I assumed those pictures were in the magazine, rather than in an exhibition.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/02/2024 13:54

The removing of the exhibit / online material will be presented as "safeguarding" all those participating from bigotry (aka as accurate feedback).
However, hopefully there'll be a little bit of awakening in the corridors of power that "bringing our whole selves to work" can involve promoting male fetishes, highlighting the mentally vulnerable employees who really should be protected from having this exposed, promoting practices that harm children like breast binding along with identifying JL male employees known for verbally abusing women.

It's their call now.

PersephoneSeethes · 18/02/2024 13:57

PronounssheRa · 18/02/2024 13:19

I wonder what John Lewis mean when they talk of being inclusive.

Do women (partners and customers) feel included knowing they might have to share changing rooms and toilets with someone like Ruby, and are unable to object.

Do colleagues who are subject to Tristans sharp wit and sarcasm feel included or do they feel belittled or bullied.

Do women feel included or excluded when councillor what's his name tweets 'fuck terfs'.

This inclusion seems to be a bit of a one way street

It's been clear for some time that 'inclusion' for Sharon White only includes young people, non-white people, and economically disadvantaged people.

Her whole aim at joining JLP was helping them benefit from the Partnership model. So basically she has isolated and squeezed out the opposite of the traditional JL/Waitrose Partner/customer base in a very short period of time.

I applaud her ethos but she glaringly has forgotten who pays for these ideals.

In conversation with Sharon White, Chair of the John Lewis Partnership

Dame Sharon White became the John Lewis Partnership’s sixth Chairman in February 2020. Sharon joined from Ofcom, the UK’s communications regulator, where she...

https://youtu.be/oxMf-X3rBII?si=USwP56HoelvMXiUX

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 18/02/2024 14:09

It's been clear for some time that 'inclusion' for Sharon White only includes young people, non-white people, and economically disadvantaged people.

I wonder if that includes those non-white women who, for cultural and/or religious reasons, cannot use toilets or changing rooms which male-bodied people are invited to use if that's "where they feel most comfortable".

CrystalSea · 18/02/2024 14:10

They paid a woman with no retail experience £1m a year to run the business into the ground.

Bravo

Crikeyalmighty · 18/02/2024 14:10

I think the expression- know thy customer has to kick in here and whilst yes it's good that Sharon likes to be inclusive in terms of staff etc she will turn an awful lot of the mainly middle aged and older customer base off- and in the interests of staff I would think actually staying in business is more important! My 25 year old son for instance would agree with it being very 'inclusive' for staff - he doesn't however need to know that . He would presume it is.

Crikeyalmighty · 18/02/2024 14:15

On another point not related but does involve Waitrose - when Brexit happened , a couple of weeks later I bought a copy of the fledgling 'new European' and some guy on the till in his late 60s said to me 'what do you want to buy that crap for' - it's rare I complain but in this case I wrote to head office and said that staff members should mind their own business on what you buy. I did get a good response and voucher and he was off the tills for months. In this case I really think JL need to be inclusive indeed but focussing on it to the level of this is ridiculous and just creates bad press

Chersfrozenface · 18/02/2024 14:19

Crikeyalmighty · 18/02/2024 14:15

On another point not related but does involve Waitrose - when Brexit happened , a couple of weeks later I bought a copy of the fledgling 'new European' and some guy on the till in his late 60s said to me 'what do you want to buy that crap for' - it's rare I complain but in this case I wrote to head office and said that staff members should mind their own business on what you buy. I did get a good response and voucher and he was off the tills for months. In this case I really think JL need to be inclusive indeed but focussing on it to the level of this is ridiculous and just creates bad press

Why was he taken off the tills? What was Waitrose's problem? He was only bringing his whole self to work.

I thought they approved of that.

dapsnotplimsolls · 18/02/2024 14:25

Chersfrozenface · 18/02/2024 14:19

Why was he taken off the tills? What was Waitrose's problem? He was only bringing his whole self to work.

I thought they approved of that.

😁

NoWordForFluffy · 18/02/2024 14:53

CrystalSea · 18/02/2024 14:10

They paid a woman with no retail experience £1m a year to run the business into the ground.

Bravo

If I'd known that's what they wanted, I'd have put myself forward!

Chersfrozenface · 18/02/2024 14:57

NoWordForFluffy · 18/02/2024 14:53

If I'd known that's what they wanted, I'd have put myself forward!

I'd have been out, I'm afraid. I worked in a Woolworth's and a Spar decades ago.

Though both shops are now defunct, so there is that.

NoWordForFluffy · 18/02/2024 14:58

Spar is still going strong round these parts!

Chersfrozenface · 18/02/2024 15:01

NoWordForFluffy · 18/02/2024 14:58

Spar is still going strong round these parts!

Spar is a sort of network of independent shops rather than a chain.

The one I worked at is gone.

SinnerBoy · 18/02/2024 15:07

SoupDragonsFriend · Today 13:42

edited to include, I've just looked up 'pup play'. I hadn't known about that before (am learning all the time) so hadn't realised about the signifier of the t-shirt.

I know of furries etc, but In hadn't realised that those T-Shirts meant "pup play," which I will NOT be Googling. I've seen people wearing them and assumed they were just a dog print design. I'm sure that some of the wearers are entirely innocent of the meaning.

ClarafromHR · 18/02/2024 15:37

FourChimneys · 17/02/2024 19:56

In the past I have spent between £50 and £100 at Waitrose on a Saturday. Today I shopped at Aldi and just went to Waitrose to use the toilet. To be fair they are cleaner than the public ones in town. To justify my visit I bought a solitary mushroom and paid with a £10 note.

Are there stickers we can decorate the toilet walls with?

I stopped going to JL when they started welcoming dogs in to piss and snuffle on their goods.

One of my neighbours is a typical middle aged Waitrose checkout woman. I must ask her what she thinks of the magazine. If it was paper rather than digital I expect she's using it to line her cat's litter tray.

Not sure if anyone has already responded. I have a good supply of stickers from ‘Let Women Speak’ Adult Human Female shop run by Posie Parker.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 18/02/2024 15:56

SoupDragonsFriend and CrystalSea
Thank you, both of you! That helped clarify a lot.

There is a picture on CrystalSea's link, which shows the photos in situ, too.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 18/02/2024 16:05

SinnerBoy · 18/02/2024 15:07

SoupDragonsFriend · Today 13:42

edited to include, I've just looked up 'pup play'. I hadn't known about that before (am learning all the time) so hadn't realised about the signifier of the t-shirt.

I know of furries etc, but In hadn't realised that those T-Shirts meant "pup play," which I will NOT be Googling. I've seen people wearing them and assumed they were just a dog print design. I'm sure that some of the wearers are entirely innocent of the meaning.

To be strictly precise, the paw print itself is a furry symbol, as far as I know. The juxtaposition of the harness with the paw print t-shirt is what signals "pup play" to me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/02/2024 16:32

I stopped going to JL when they started welcoming dogs in to piss and snuffle on their goods.

Canine ones? Grin

OvaHere · 18/02/2024 16:49

What on earth is wrong with these companies? Do they all sniff glue at their board meetings? I can roll my eyes and ignore to a point when they all Pride Flag their logos for whatever month it is but this is way OTT.

You're a fucking shop John Lewis not high priests of a quasi religion. FFS!

SoupDragonsFriend · 18/02/2024 18:01

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 18/02/2024 16:05

To be strictly precise, the paw print itself is a furry symbol, as far as I know. The juxtaposition of the harness with the paw print t-shirt is what signals "pup play" to me.

Thanks for explaining. I'd made the assumption that it was the two together as well, just didn't make it clear. I've still learnt something new though which is useful.

I hate the fact that things that I have always thought quite wonderful, like real-life rainbows, or important, like 'being kind', have been linked to something I dislike so much, and now it's puppy paw prints. I'm doing my best to keep on trying to be kind to people and remain in awe of real rainbows regardless.

Even the first ordinary rainbow flag was celebratory but it's far too overused now and everything else that's been done with adapting the multicoloured flags is worse. Oh, and I'm particularly fed up about the repurposing the historic suffragette flag as 'genderqueer' (no comment).

Dostadning · 18/02/2024 22:22

The other thread about the furry got zapped.
I'm new to the thread so amazed that John Lewis are into staff celebrating kinks. Seems a bit cool girl/try hard for their own branding/demographic.
S+M rather than M+S.

Because I amuse myself...
John Lewis were barking up the wrong tree there - that young man needed to rein it in and harness his talent more wisely.
All puns aside, the photographer Chris Jepson has done some stunning portraits.

Portrait – The IDENTITY Project
I assume all the vox pop bits came from the sitters themselves and some are worded awkwardly. The furry guy with his "subjecting colleagues to his sarcasm!" and the intentional exclamation! might have been meant as self-deprecating rather than self-aggrandising but doesn't read that way.

Some of the portraits on the site are more revealing. There's also a human pup Envy not envy.
However, diversity across the LGBTQ+ community is presented well in the project.
There are some women there that I think come across very well/would be positive role models for DD.

Edit: I see that the JL exhibition was a side project to the above link.
I have in another country been asked to take part in a similar employee thing. Not LGBTQ+ focused but rather diversity within our workforce I was the token Brit All the portraits and vox pops were cringey, so I do feel for those in this encouraged to take part. I can imagine how some of those convos went.

PersephoneSeethes · 19/02/2024 07:41

Chersfrozenface · 18/02/2024 14:09

It's been clear for some time that 'inclusion' for Sharon White only includes young people, non-white people, and economically disadvantaged people.

I wonder if that includes those non-white women who, for cultural and/or religious reasons, cannot use toilets or changing rooms which male-bodied people are invited to use if that's "where they feel most comfortable".

Indeed. What about their female Sikh and Muslim workers and customers? So many parts of JLP policies on this are so illogical and ill-thought out.

OP posts:
HorribleNecktie · 19/02/2024 08:15

Boiledbeetle · 17/02/2024 12:29

😒

Ruby works at my local shop.

You know. For local people.