Should I be worried about how 'girly' my DD is?

[Crishell]

She's only 4, and is the stereotypical 'girly girl'. She loves pink, princesses, 'pretty' dresses, the lot.
The problem I have, and I don't know where she's got this from as I haven't encouraged it, is that she says things like 'pink is for girls', 'i don't like football, that's for boys', things like that. I've tried telling her that girls can play football if they like etc etc but she's absolutely adamant.

Is this just a phase? I support her choices in clothes, activities etc because I can't force her to wear certain colours or whatever but it does concern me that her whole world is being a pretty pink princess...

Thoughts?

She’s a good age for The Paper Bag Princess - it was read to my Reception Class when there was some nonsense from a couple of the lads about “girls can’t…” 🙄

On a similar theme, The Princess In Black breaks Princess stereotypes; & there’s the Wide Awake Princess series too. (Though I’ve only heard these ones recommended rather than being able to endorse them myself).

As PPs have said, keeping gently correcting her about football/pink/other gender stereotypes is the key thing. There’s no harm in someone liking the things stereotypically put in the box of the gender aligned with their sex; just as it’s fine for them to prefer those that have been put into the box for the gender aligned with the opposite sex. It’s the belief that such conformity is compulsory & failure to do so makes one somehow “wrong” &/or “other” that is so desperately damaging (& indeed actually wrong!!!).

I played with Ghostbusters and transformers as a child. Refused all "girl" toys. Crawled through hedges and up trees. Would wear a dress occasionally because you did what my mother said or god help you. Am now about as girly as you get and have been since 18.

I was thrilled at the news of boy/girl twins, as was all boy household up until then. Oh the pink frills I bought. She point blank refuses the lot. The closest I've ever got was a tutu thing over a tracksuit. She will wear a sparkly crown and cape though. I don't push it, but I do persist every week with a "ooh look at this one, it's got glittery butterflies on it, you like bugs don't you, do you want to try the lovely bug dress on?" ....."No."

Testament to their nursery, boy twin will put the dressing up dresses on, girl twin is poking around with snails and beetles most days. It's a completely gender neutral place. I wish she'd put a dress on just bloody once though, it's so cute when they're little and we've virtually missed the boat as they'll be off to school soon.

They're gonna be who they're gonna be. At my DDs age all I cared about was Optimus Prime. Barbie's were for losers. At 18 I redecorated my room as a Barbie theme. So what if she thinks football is for boys? I didn't like it either, and my excuse not to get involved was "it's for boys" as well.

She'll be fine OP.

I think developmentally children around 3-5 become very aware of the two sexes and that they belong in one category. It may have now become heavily gendered but it's not that unusual that she is identifying strongly as what she sees as a girl.

I also don't think we should remove the pleasure from little girls who are having fun being uber feminine. Ironically if this was a gay boy behaving the same way I doubt every one would say tell him to do sports and try and withhold the clothes he likes the most.

With our 3 kids we had a big dress up box and we put into it all sorts of outfits. Including princess dresses, but they were actually really well made and more medieval and not about Disney. We are in the USA and my two daughters went as Princesses on Halloween for at least 2 years running when under 10.

Forward 10-15 years:
The eldest studied STEM in uni but now teaches ceramics and art to adults, teens and children.

Our 2nd daughter is very glam but is STEM all the way and loves biology and chemistry.

Children's play doesn't dictate their thought processes and future, especially if you are an open minded family that talks about all sorts of topics and you teach your children to think critically.

I definitely would never prevent my child from playing and having fun. I just always introduced lots of other options alongside anything very gendered that they enjoyed.

My son also dressed up as a princess at the same age, and our eldest liked to be Prince Charming and escort the other "princesses" to the ball. They also played with the dog together and played rough and tumble games outside. I think we have to be careful not to overthink it when their understanding at 4 is very simplistic.

• that should have mentioned that the Prince Charming was our eldest daughter.

Girly and female have gone out of fashion. Liking pink is the symbol of the much despised womanly virtues.
Sometimes I wonder what message is being sent to.girls these days.

"All the colours are for all the children" just keep repeating this to her.
And - She might choose to not do something but other girls can.

They are figuring out the world at 4.

This is completely normal for 4 year olds, they're the gender police.

Yes I found this with ds1 at 4! He went from not really even noticing if kids were boys or girls, to strict rules about what boys and girls can do/play/wear/like! Not from me or dh at all! We always said anyone can like anything and there are no boy/girl toys or colours! We also try to role model it - so dh wears pink, I always say my favourite game is hot wheels ("girls don't like cars" I was once solemnly told!) and I've made a conscious effort to look for books and films where there is a female main character doing brave, clever, exciting things. He is 6 now and definitely still thinks some things are for girls but we are doing our best.

I wouldn't worry too much. I was that type of girl, very into pink fluffiness etc. Until my late teenage years. I grew up to become a doctor in a male dominated speciality. I had no female role models when I was at school (in the 1970s). Neither my mum nor my granny had ever worked, and when I got into medical school my granny's reaction was "oh dear, that sounds so hard for a girl, wouldn't it be easier to be a secretary?" ( no offence meant to secretaries!).

I tend to blame nurseries. No matter how hard you take a feminist attitude at home you can't shield them from the offspring of parents who actively push the gendered stuff.

Perhaps you could try to make the most of it as a springboard for encouraging a genuine interest in historical fashion or fantasy adventure rather than just the superficial dressing-up stuff.

My Dd is the same, however it didn’t stop her from trying to rugby tackle a boy who pushed her so I think she’s fine. As long as she has access to other stuff too theres no point in worrying about it. You like what you like. I know a kid who went from pink princesses to androgynous goth.

I was a child of the 70s. My DM cut my hair short herself in an unattractive pudding bowl style and I was made to wear androgynous clothing. I was a chubby child and the horrible utilitarian clothing only reinforced my belief that I was unattractive and not worth looking at.
I hated it and the only clothes I liked were the occasional dress that was sent across by my aunt from the US.

Let her wear what she wants, it's what she thinks and does that matters.

Mine was never a girly girl till she started at nursery school then suddenly it was girls can't play football, boys are this, girls are that and this was despite the lived reality of her own life and family. I was constantly having to say but what about.... so many examples surrounding her of women doing stereotypical male roles. And I don't know who started commenting to her about not getting her clothes dirty that was probably about 6 or 7. My response was thats what the washing machine is for. Ffs we live on a farm, mud is part of our life. She's now a teen and you aren't prising her out of her hoodie and joggers (black).

Its really hard to bring them up to really believe then can do anything when the world is constantly saying but you're a girl to them

Absolutely nothing.

There would only be a problem if you thought that's how all women and girls should be, and that men and boys should have different rules.

FlibbedyFlobbedyFloo · Yesterday 15:15

I was at a men's rugby match the other week and the referee was a young woman. Little girl behind us said to her mum, "I want to do that" and I was thrilled. If it had been a male referee, she would have been much less likely to say it.

There was a lineswoman at the England - Wales game, which was a first for the Six Nations.

Crishell

I wouldn't worry too much, she's still young. My daughter was total pink freak and Disney Princess dress until she was six, when she would only wear shorts and trousers. She's coming up to 11 and she's recently asked for a skirt, but a black one.

My dd was like that at age 4. It only lasted a couple of years. Pink soon went out of the window, and by age 11 she had cut her hair super short and has never worn a dress or a skirt since (she's at university now). She went through quite a long 'ugh - girly stuff is awful' stage, but by about 15 realised that was actually internalised misogyny talking. She's still pretty 'gender non-conforming' but doesn't make a big thing out of it. Don't try and steer her likes and dislikes (unless they are age-inappropriate, of course) - she will find her own way.

My most girly girl at this age, now wears men's clothes and never wears make-up (late teens now). I honestly don't think you should make a fuss about it or worry. Also, girls go massively off pink and sparkle at about 6/7 I find, so culturally I think we are moving on from boxing them into this. Also, be sensible about it - nice clothes are fine for dressing up and parties. If you're in the park and living day to day, leggings and jeans are best for comfort and practicality. Make sure they have a pair of trainers and wellies etc. That sort of reflects adult life as well.

I do think you need to correct her when she says pink is for girls and football is for boys. Colours are for everyone - show her Inter Miami soccer jerseys. And football is for everyone too- loads of examples there. I don't work, nor does either grandmother in our family. My son started saying moms are at home and dads work. And we started talking about his hairdresser, his doctor, his teacher, all the ladies in Tescos and all the other "moms" working who we see every day.

My ds is into pink glitter and unicorns also and is currently getting "it's a girls colour" in school a lot.

I loved all things pink and girly. Managed to get educated to beyond degree level and develop a career. My favourite colour is still pink and I still love make up and pretty dresses but also have about a million other dimensions to my character. 'Girly' things bring me joy but I'm not a Stepford wife. I'm still an articulate, independent, intelligent professional woman.

Yes, all the cries of it's become 'more gendered now' and it was so much better in the 1970s and 80s, needs to remember what the gender divide really looked like and how embedded it was. You were probably in a student cohort of 20-30% being female (most medicine course are 55-60% female now, though surgery still only has 10% of female trainees).

Nothing wrong with your DD. Children are very susceptible to gender stereotypes at this age, but trust me, she'll grow into her own person. In any case, there is nothing wrong with liking pink or pretty dresses, is there?

This is completely normal at age 4.

Apparently, they have to go through the black and white, dividing everything into discrete categories phase before they can move past it into seeing shades of grey. It's not only gender, but we do notice it very clearly with gender roles.

There was an interesting bit in Delusions of Gender about age 4 - the way the author put it there is that children of this age are basically in a developmental stage where they are working out what makes people "us" and what makes people "them" - and if you look at the world which surrounds them at that age, we refer to gender ALL THE TIME. It's not "Good morning Sunshine Class" it's "Good morning girls and boys". It's not "Can you three tidy up please and join us on the carpet?" it's "Can you girls tidy up please..." it's not "Thank you for helping me" it's "Good girl for helping me". Lots of products are marketed strictly along gendered lines.

In addition, we consciously avoid (for good reason) dividing people by other measures such as race, nationality, origin, ability, interest, size etc. The only other one that we make very important to children is age. So when they are there looking for what group they fall into which the other children don't, they centre on age and sex.

In order to try and combat this with my first DS I was really conscious to NOT use the term "boys, come and..." and I stopped using "Good boy" and changed to "Thank you for..." or "That was very (helpful) of you!" I tried to use our family name as an identifier rather than talking about "Big/brave/strong boys do XYZ" - and I've since learned that telling children about their family history and helping them feel part of something in the way of involvement in a family can be extremely beneficial in many ways. This can help children have an anchor of "I'm a Botts!" rather than "I'm a girl and girls are better than boys because XYZ" (or arguably worse) "I'm a girl, but I wish I was a boy because boys can XYZ"

But, he definitely did the boys/girls thing anyway. We had lots of conversations when he was 5/6/7 about how "Some people think all girls X and all boys Y but that's silly isn't it? What about this girl who likes Y and that boy who likes X?"

I think in hindsight if I had known it was just a phase they have to necessarily go through to get to the other side where they see all the exceptions and then the vast area of grey in the middle, I might not have worried about it so much.

This can help children have an anchor of "I'm a Botts!" rather than "I'm a girl and girls are better than boys because XYZ" (or arguably worse) "I'm a girl, but I wish I was a boy because boys can XYZ"

That's an interesting point - I think one of the reasons I was blithely oblivious to the gender divide re STEM subjects at school in the 70s was because the Dragon family did science - DF was a science teacher, older DBs.