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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sunak telling Robin White that biological sex is important live on GB news

805 replies

fromorbit · 12/02/2024 21:09

'Particularly when it comes to questions around women's safety and health, biological sex is important.' Parents need to be involved in schools.

Rishi Sunak is asked 'why should LGBT people vote Conservative?'
GB News forum footage here:
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
EasternStandard · 19/02/2024 23:04

All parties have donors. Labour has unions but also private donors

Not sure where TS fits in. Conservative major donors seem to be business people, but then so do Labour’s outside unions

NotBadConsidering · 19/02/2024 23:08

AdamRyan · 19/02/2024 22:38

Because you made a comment about my lack of reading comprehension so I thought I'd better check Confused That's not "pretending" anything Confused

Your first reply to me indicated you had misunderstood my post. So your comprehension was in question. You then said you did understand it really. Which was something different to what you posted. So you either posted something you knew to be different or you didn’t understand.

NotBadConsidering · 19/02/2024 23:11

AdamRyan · 19/02/2024 22:43

I'm not. It's short hand for a network of think tanks that influence the government. Because of the allegations about left wing press I've spent some time finding a hopefully more acceptable source for you
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-presses-big-brother-watch-funding/

Again, you are deliberately misrepresenting or deliberately misunderstanding my posts. I don’t care what the source of information is, as long as the information is correct. What makes you think a source such as LBC would be “more acceptable” to me? What you need to do is explain to all the moaners about why they should bother with a GB news/Daily Mail/LBC source, not me.

It’s quite clear you’re misrepresenting this on purpose.

Apollo441 · 20/02/2024 01:35

This is simply solved. Just invite Starmer on in the same format. And the audience can ask him questions in the same manner as Sunak. A TRA managed to question him so I'm sure Starmer would be delighted to answer a few questions from someone gender critical. If he refuses then that's his problem and investigations into bias should be dropped. It seems the left have got their biased media with the BBC and C4 but whine like a stuck pig if the Tories have the same. And the BBC and C4 have ten thousand times the coverage of GB News.
Don't tell me they aren't biased. Witness the number of gender ideologues they have on compared to the other side (was it 47 to 7 for women's hour) and some issues they just refuse to cover.

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:16

NotBadConsidering · 19/02/2024 23:11

Again, you are deliberately misrepresenting or deliberately misunderstanding my posts. I don’t care what the source of information is, as long as the information is correct. What makes you think a source such as LBC would be “more acceptable” to me? What you need to do is explain to all the moaners about why they should bother with a GB news/Daily Mail/LBC source, not me.

It’s quite clear you’re misrepresenting this on purpose.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I'm merely pointing out the Tufton Street organisations are not "non partisan" and information coming from them has an agenda.

First thing you learn in history, to analyse your sources and their potential motivations.

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:19

Apollo441 · 20/02/2024 01:35

This is simply solved. Just invite Starmer on in the same format. And the audience can ask him questions in the same manner as Sunak. A TRA managed to question him so I'm sure Starmer would be delighted to answer a few questions from someone gender critical. If he refuses then that's his problem and investigations into bias should be dropped. It seems the left have got their biased media with the BBC and C4 but whine like a stuck pig if the Tories have the same. And the BBC and C4 have ten thousand times the coverage of GB News.
Don't tell me they aren't biased. Witness the number of gender ideologues they have on compared to the other side (was it 47 to 7 for women's hour) and some issues they just refuse to cover.

😂
Sorry, are you trying to imply GB News and the BBC are the same, just one is left wing and one is right wing?
Good grief. For starters, the BBC isn't stuffed to the gills with current and former Labour MPs presenting "current affairs" programmed. Neither is C4 news.

NotBadConsidering · 20/02/2024 08:25

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:16

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I'm merely pointing out the Tufton Street organisations are not "non partisan" and information coming from them has an agenda.

First thing you learn in history, to analyse your sources and their potential motivations.

You are misrepresenting my posts. Either that or you have a comprehension issue. You seem to think that because I am mocking those people who shriek with horror at so-called “right wing” sources of information and association, that I personally deem so-called “right wing” sources of information as “more acceptable”, hence you saying “here is is more acceptable source for you”.

So either you do have a comprehension issue, or you’re deliberately being rude and misrepresentative.

Datun · 20/02/2024 08:38

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:19

😂
Sorry, are you trying to imply GB News and the BBC are the same, just one is left wing and one is right wing?
Good grief. For starters, the BBC isn't stuffed to the gills with current and former Labour MPs presenting "current affairs" programmed. Neither is C4 news.

They're still biased.

And as for GB news, as a pp says they can just get Starmer on too. They may have already asked him. It's not as though people don't have form for not wanting to discuss the issue.

Personally, I don't mind which 'side' are invited. They can all be TRAs for all I care. Hearing people explain why they support gender ideology is often more useful in fact.

EasternStandard · 20/02/2024 08:41

Which outlets cover gender from a non TRA perspective?

There aren’t many. Women are ignored by half the media on this

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:42

NotBadConsidering · 20/02/2024 08:25

You are misrepresenting my posts. Either that or you have a comprehension issue. You seem to think that because I am mocking those people who shriek with horror at so-called “right wing” sources of information and association, that I personally deem so-called “right wing” sources of information as “more acceptable”, hence you saying “here is is more acceptable source for you”.

So either you do have a comprehension issue, or you’re deliberately being rude and misrepresentative.

Maybe the problem is with how you're communicating whatever point you want to make because I'm not getting it.
There's clearly some issue going on if you are interpreting what I'm posting as "shrieking with horror" and I'm not sure it's worth either of our time to continue.

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:47

Datun · 20/02/2024 08:38

They're still biased.

And as for GB news, as a pp says they can just get Starmer on too. They may have already asked him. It's not as though people don't have form for not wanting to discuss the issue.

Personally, I don't mind which 'side' are invited. They can all be TRAs for all I care. Hearing people explain why they support gender ideology is often more useful in fact.

Lefties accused the BBC of bias too, just look at the outrage about how often Farage has been on question time. Or read the article I linked upthread about the BBC being "captured" by right wing think tanks.

It makes me think the BBC must be pretty balanced. I've never heard any implication that GB News is biased to the left however.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/05/rightwing-thinktanks-government-bbc-news-programmes

I'm not really bothered what news sources people use myself, I'm bothered about transparency of sources and following the reporting rules that are there to protect democracy.

Rightwing thinktanks run this government. But first, they had to capture the BBC | George Monbiot

Why are representatives of these shadily funded groups treated as impartial observers on news programmes? asks Guardian columnist George Monbiot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/05/rightwing-thinktanks-government-bbc-news-programmes

NotBadConsidering · 20/02/2024 08:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RedToothBrush · 20/02/2024 09:26

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:16

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I'm merely pointing out the Tufton Street organisations are not "non partisan" and information coming from them has an agenda.

First thing you learn in history, to analyse your sources and their potential motivations.

Yes.

Shame you haven't learnt that lesson too.

I've told this story on MN multiple times but I'll do it again now.

My lecturer at university made a point about this very well. His speciality was politics and propaganda. He also presented the module I did to BBC staff as part of their training programme. He was highly respected in his field.

He said that it wasn't just about sourcing. It was about balance in the media too. And not just sticking to listening to left wing OR right wing media. He made the point, and it's one of the few things that stuck in my mind very clearly from uni. I paraphrase here but this is vaguely what he said:

"You might think I'm a chain smoking, old fashioned, sexist white male who is right wing and only reads the Daily Mail. And you are all young, liberal and left wing. But be careful what you wish for in terms of censorship. Who censors the censors? Who decides what should be censored and what shouldn't be? Censorship is a very powerful and dangerous tool. If you shut down voices, you risk missing a very important issue to society. A democracy is built on the representation and sharing of multiple ideas and free speech. One day you might need the Daily Mail".

In the 90s he was writing books on how technology communication was changing and how this historically coincided with periods of great political instability and there was a period of 'wild west' where society struggled to cope because people wrote all sorts of unaccountable bullshit and passed it off as real. He was essentially saying that 'fake news' was a risk long before Trump came along and used the term.

He died not long after I left uni at a pretty young age. I do often wonder what he'd have made of the last few years.

My point here is that whilst you are busy lecturing others on MN on various threads about 'acceptable sources', you have also forgotten the issue of political bias (whilst also lecturing about that too).

It is useful and indeed healthy to listen to multiple views EVEN IF THEY HAVE BIAS and you are aware of this, because it helps you to think critically rather than accept blindly. It helps you to question what you are told and process it as having value as something which is valid or to help you to construct a better counter argument to the point.

There is also the issue, as so many left wing and liberal women, have found out in that sometimes you realise that your 'own side' is talking out of its arse or the 'other side' has a valid point about something.

This is true even when you know that the view you are hearing is a pile of tosh. It is good to learn where someone is coming from or why they believe x, y and z. You can't do this unless you actually take the time to listen to them. If you allow others to explain it for you, you end up with them creating falsehoods and filling in the dots for you but to their own interests. See the point about how JKRowling tweets multiple anti-trans comments that no one can ever quote or give a screenshot for.

When you restrict yourself to ONLY listening or valuing 'approved' sources you narrow your own mind.

The idiom about having one mouth but two ears and we should behave in proportion to this in life, by making sure we listen more than we speak definitely holds true.

There is no such thing as 'right' or 'wrong' sources. There is such a thing as sources understood and used wisely and carefully in multiple ways. You shouldn't just simply dismiss them because they ALL hold some sort of value and worth which you can use to help your understanding of a subject more fully.

And with that I shall get off my 'MN, this is how the media works, why it is important and how this isn't being properly taught in this country and is greatly misunderstood' soapbox.

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 09:38

I'm not sure why you think I don't read other sources. I read all the links on here and analyse them and what I think of them. I actually get nearly all my information from here, the only news source I look at regularly is BBC.

As I said, I often post guardian links because it's not paywalled.

GB news/Tufton Street both have an agenda so I take what they say with a pinch of salt and fact check it. As I'm sure your Prof advised everyone to do.

I object to this view that all "information" is of equal value. It isn't. A piece of scientific peer reviewed research is far more likely to be accurate than my random Internet posting, for example.

On controversial topics its even more important to check sources. That's why I miss Gender Trender. She did a great job of referencing her sources and how she reached her conclusions. Policy Exchange, not so much.

maltravers · 20/02/2024 09:40

I assume the PM went on GB news, because the Beeb and others were not prepared to discuss this matter of the balance of rights. It should be discussed in a mature democracy. This issue doesn’t really affect white straight blokes, but it affects women, gay people, trans people. This is just like the Daily Mail covering GC stuff that other mainstream media kept away from. I was grateful to the DM and I’m grateful to GB news.

I read both the Guardian and bits of the Telegraph to try to get both angles. The bias of both is very annoying!

EasternStandard · 20/02/2024 09:44

I think posters on FWR are generally savvy on sources and agenda of whichever outlet

Labour too is influenced, of course it is it goes with the territory

Part of weakening the grip of unions was Labour’s shift, starting from Blair

Starmer wants to increase business funding for same reasons

EasternStandard · 20/02/2024 09:45

And on women’s rights I’m not sure what the pp wants given half the media prefer to ignore it or promote men

maltravers · 20/02/2024 09:48

I think some posters would like women just to suck up whatever the woke bros decide. That is not going to happen though.

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 09:49

I want it to be reported factually and not used as a political pawn. So people can be clear about the issues and draw their own conclusions. Rather than this divided "right/wrong" debate.
I find it extremely weird that on here I seem to be percieved as some kind of left wing SJW who lives in a TRA echo chamber, while in real life my friends and family won't discuss trans issues with me because they think I'm a transphobe. Something is very out of whack on line with the discourse.

Signalbox · 20/02/2024 09:50

So funny when people think their preferred media is the neutral option.

Snowypeaks · 20/02/2024 09:54

Great post, @RedToothBrush
This is a lesson I have had to learn and relearn throughout my adult life.

EasternStandard · 20/02/2024 10:03

Can we expect a factual discussion on the BBC prime time?

I’m keen on that one for sure

Get both in ask questions and get clarity

EdithStourton · 20/02/2024 10:10

@Adam Ryan
I object to this view that all "information" is of equal value.
That wasn't what I read the poster as saying. I thought she said, 'I don't care where the info is from as long as it is accurate.'

Datun · 20/02/2024 10:16

AdamRyan · 20/02/2024 08:47

Lefties accused the BBC of bias too, just look at the outrage about how often Farage has been on question time. Or read the article I linked upthread about the BBC being "captured" by right wing think tanks.

It makes me think the BBC must be pretty balanced. I've never heard any implication that GB News is biased to the left however.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/05/rightwing-thinktanks-government-bbc-news-programmes

I'm not really bothered what news sources people use myself, I'm bothered about transparency of sources and following the reporting rules that are there to protect democracy.

The BBC has between 400 and 500 trans people working for them. Way out of proportion to the national average.

But it's massive, and anyone can accuse it of anything at a specific moment.

My point is that I, personally, would welcome the exact same amount of time being given to all sides in a debate, particularly this one. And particularly one where questions can be asked.

So yes, let's have Starmer on GB news.

The issue here being that pro trans people very rarely want their views aired, at all. Because the more people know, the less they agree.

So if people are going to complain about Sunak on GB news, they need to be aware that the solution probably isn't not to have him on there, but to have Starmer on there too. And that solution to be played out across the board.

Because I suspect their motivation is censorship, but that will backfire.

Hopefully.