Did anyone watch Stella O'Malley's critique of GC feminists on YouTube?

[Betweenthe2]

l

I'd be interested in opinions on this from people who have watched it (rather than dismissed it out of hand because of the title)

I thought it was good

I thought the points she raised at beginning about how f people who wouldn't ordinarily agree have been drawn together was particularly interesting . The only thing they are agree on is human beings can't change sex and children should be protected from thinking they could. They are at odds otherwise.

Also how different brains might interpret how use of pronouns based on gender rather than sex might feel.

Honestly I barely got half way through before I could not take it any more. (i got through it in the end)

It's a smearing of women and I found not much good about it. It already starts with the premise of "gender critical feminists attacked me"

Being gender critical is not really about feminism. It's a mass of people who agree on one thing who are temporarily joining forces.

I've seen radfems, libfems, anti-feminists, trad wives, MRA's, gay men, .... anybody called a "gender critical". The term is as pointless as TERF or transphobe at this point and in this case GC got the same use as a smear tactic.

I'm a bit over this whole infighting bullshit and throwing other women under the bus. This felt like a guy pointing his fingers at naughty women who speak up and I found Stella to be offputting on multiple occasions by being the cool girl.

I found that incredibly condescending and cool girl behaviour.

Oh I find it not difficult to think of two things at the same time, like using she pronouns but knowing I'm talking to a male person, but other people might have issues... Bullshit.

No one has a good time with the Stroop test.

Feminists STFU and get back in your box. After the election sisters.

And then she stumbled over the ‘correct’ pronoun at the end of that, did anyone else hear that bit 😂

I don't trust O'Malley,but I did enjoy watching her squirm when she had that little chat with KJK in November.

I've just managed the first 5 minutes. He's been looking into it for about a year and thinks "are you kidding me? Who the fuck cares?!" about which pronouns he uses.

So even after a whole year he hasn't genuinely considered why anyone would care about pronouns. He's hardly serious about documenting this if he hasn't got that far.

Give me strength.

Puritanical? So annoying women? Self described terfs? "These people"?

What a prick.

They correct you? In a censorial way? Some words forbidden? No platforming? Censoring words and thoughts?

Who are they talking about? The no debate belongs to GI / TWAW.

Ridiculing those who are concerned about pronouns. Neither of them have worked in institutions with compelled speech and witnessing how it starts with #bekind with pronouns and ends with being fired for wrong thinking.

Just another twatty male who doesn’t like to be told no you’re wrong. IMO.

Unimpressed about the quality of discourse here.

Another beardy white male telling wimmen they’re thinking wrong. Nice.

So pretty much what we have been saying on this board for years?

"I don't get brain ache if I use she/her pronouns and the person is male" as part of explaining why she doesn't believe 'pronouns are rohypnol' to her.

Followed immediately by "I can see a transwoman and say she/her" whilst at the same time thinking 'he's a man'" ... short pause "'she's a man' whatever".

No Stella, your brain really wants to match the words 'he' and 'man' together because that's the meaning they have in English.

Yes, that bit!
proving herself wrong

I found it interesting to watch and useful to better understand where she is coming from. She is doing useful work in the field of psychotherapy and I appreciate that.

I think it's a mistake to try and categorise the people who might disagree with her or who have attacked her into distinct groups. Particularly as she says that mostly these people won't engage in private dialogue with her so most of her experience is constrained by the arena of social media. She'd find out more if she did more videos like the one with Kellie-Jay Keen where they disagreed amicably.

I'll give the Kelly jaye Keen conversation a listen.

I don't think it's fair to call Stella "cool girl" or accuse her of smearing. I think she's giving her own perspective on her experiences.

How can we criticise TWAW for no debate if we can't even accept that some GC people might have different views on some things?

I can accept perfectly fine that she has a different opinion.

And unlike the TRA i will not threaten her, try to get her fired, stand next to her with a vuvezela when she tries to speak or try to stop any platform that wants her as a guest.

I can also call her out on things I think are cool girl behaviour. And you can react to that and we can disagree. But I'm not going to ignore nonsense and smearing of women.

Out of interest do you do anything to combat gender ideology other than post on mumsnet? Have you, for example, started an international organisation like Genspect?

"Cool girl" in this context seems misogynistic to me. She is a woman not a girl and she is hardly running around trying to seem "cool".

Yes coincidentally I helped found a branch of a larger women's initiative in my country. Though we are not that blessed to be in a country, or right next to a country, with women like JK Rowling, Margaret Berns, Kellie-Jay or Julia Long who paved the way for us like Genspect had when it was founded barely 3 years ago.

What is that you do exactly?

Cool girl is an existent archetype in literature and movies that has existed for quite a while. I did not come up with the name as for example featured in this monologue in Gone Girl:

I just post on mumsnet but I'm not the one name calling women for disagreeing with me. I'm aware that you didn't make the term cool girl up Calling women girls to belittle their opinion is misogynistic. You could easily refute Stella's points rather than name call.

I've just listened to KJK and Stella's discussion. I found it really interesting. Thank you to whoever posted about it up thread.

...and those sandwiches aren't going to make themselves!!

Out of interest do you do anything to combat gender ideology other than post on mumsnet? Have you, for example, started an international organisation like Genspect?

I think thats a really unfair comment. Discussing gender ideology and raising awareness in a grass roots way here has been invaluable. We talk about our understanding of gender, how it inpacts women and children and practical ways to navigate it. Its been far more useful to me than monetized conferences.

Dont belittle what had been achieved here.

No you are just defending someone who throws women under the bus and argues with people who call out that behaviour.

What is there to refute? Her opinion is that the pronoun issue, and the article "pronouns are rohypnol" it's all irrelevant because her brain can use 'she' for men without issue (which was immediately debunked by herself).

She is confused about why the first criticisms of her were about using Debbie Hayton when she was fighting against the medicalisation of children. The obvious reason is that he is an AGP man who in the past argued against women and single sex spaces and put his last when it came to his own paraphilia. But she thinks that is not a big deal.

This was in response to the poster belittling the founder of Genspect by calling her misogynistic names.