Anyone watching QI?!

[Anothernewname123]

Setting aside Sandy's women's party views of what a woman is, there is a fascinating dynamic between the natal women (Toksvig & Pascoe) seemingly excluding Jordan 'penis piano player' Gray).
Not least when the topic of discussion was the physiology of women making them better at ultramarathons than men 👀😁

This person is not going to change back to being male. Ever.

You can't actually change sex. A male person will always be male, whatever they say or think.

Exactly.

This has got to be the definition of ‘have an argument in an empty room’

everyone was quite happy talking about QI and ultra running and then there’s an attempt to kick off 😳

So did I! Which is why I was surprised by last night's episode of QI. It was like they forgot that TWAW and they were being Team Terf without even realising it. Jordan was a silenced spare part.

I've seen this happen in other places as well.

I didn't watch it properly, but I did think there seemed an atmosphere. It seemed awkward to say the least.
I thought Jason was his usual self, but Alan & Sara much quieter, I doubt they are TWAW in private.
I thought Sandi was sycophant towards Jordan, probably knew all eyes would be on Sandi and watching for a reaction.

Anyone watching this episode can see there is a difference between a man dressing like they think women dress (eg looking like drag) compared to what women actually dress like (Sandi & Sara) as well as all the additional subtleties. I doubt this will have changed anyone's minds either side of the debate.

"a very small minority" ? Men aren't a small minority what are you talking about? (Obviously there are trans identifying women too but you weren't referring to those were you? 🙄)

Another Very Bad Person here. Some of the posters are so desperate for validation that they try to invent it where it doesn't exist.

"I have a niece who is gay, and her best friend is trans - and has consequently been bullied in school for the past 4 years - relentlessly. Her friend is kind, intelligent and fun - and does not give one shit about outdoing women in sports etc This person is not going to change back to being male. Ever.

So am I not allowed to like this person, or call her by a female name or pronoun? Or be supportive in any way? Nooooo - not according to the TERF laws on this board."

Our feline friend is full of misapprehensions. Nobody on the GC side says we need to dislike males who think they can become women, or that we can't be civil towards them as people. We just don't want male bodies in female spaces and don't feel the need to validate the delusion that people can change sex. Your niece's friend may not give a shit about outdoing women in sports or inserting himself into women-only shortlists or invading women's changing rooms, but a lot of males do and they are eroding women's sex-based rights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001w3p2/qi-series-u-6-ultras

Is this the definition of woman?

News to me.
And just where does adult human female come into it?

Watching now. It's quite a good programme. Also noticed this, when discussing a pregnant elephant.

Just watching it too - Sandi said something about toenails are for sissies leading to Alan making a comment about “it’s not to do with being cis right, that’s such a minefield”. That made piano-knob go into slightly pissy mode and left the women to talk about how impressive it was for a bf woman to win that endurance race.

Because facts are facts, and even if there are so many people who "believe otherwise" that it becomes mass hysteria, the facts will always come out

The elephant in the room

I've just watched this without having an idea who is Jordan and that they are TW. Completely passed for me! Only at the end I had a little inkling (the comment being new to breasts gave it away, I guess), googled, and found this thread.

To me, watching cluelessly, Sandy seemed to admire Jordan- very complimentary, lots of smiles and nice comments towards her, the congratulatory handshake for one of the answers... I actually thought Sandy must fancy this person...

Sarah looked great and was very witty and charming. I cannot for the life of me imagine she is TWAW. I think she needs to be cautious in her line of work, basically.

The CIS comment and getting cancelled comment I took to be 'terf'y, natural, and relaxed.

Hadn't watched the programme for a while and couldn't help thinking Sandy looked unwell/ frail?

Was quite shocked to later find out more about Jordan.

her best friend is trans - and has consequently been bullied in school for the past 4 years - relentlessly. Her friend is kind, intelligent and fun - and does not give one shit about outdoing women in sports etc This person is not going to change back to being male. Ever

Shockingly transphobic conflation of sex and gender - do better! It’s also transphobic to say this friend isn’t male. Only male people can be transwomen or transgirls.

To me, watching cluelessly, Sandy seemed to admire Jordan- very complimentary, lots of smiles and nice comments towards her, the congratulatory handshake for one of the answers... I actually thought Sandy must fancy this person...

You see fawning often when women are encountering transwomen. I'd suggest it's part of the fight/flight/freeze/fawn response. An attempt to neutralise a threat, avoid confrontation.

@ArabellaScott that makes sense.

And also the As a same sex attracted woman I know exactly what a woman is, but I don’t want to be accused of potentially career ending transphobia so I’m going to overcompensate factor.

coming here and writing piffle like that is rude and uninformed.

Your individuals might be lovely - collectively TRAs are a bin fire. Literally calling for women to die in a fat fire. Perhaps you'd be ok with your lovely friends saying that, IDK.

there are no "TERF laws". That's the kind of thing a proscriptive movement like TRAs have. Women who campaign and advocate for women's rights (to their own sport, to their own spaces) usually DGAF what other people want/do as long as they don't infringe on women's rights/needs/requirements.

But you froth away in your ignorant bubble.

i think the answer here is, as it so often is, that once you get into the actual realms of childbearing, rearing and parenting - you realise that the things the old crones and hags have been telling you about how it affects women in very different ways to men, are true. And it is such an obvious truth that even the belief that TWAW (it hurts to type that) is overridden by it. And you can discuss it even with other believers, because it is such a plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face truth that women's bodies are affected by pregnancy and childbirth, and that post birth your life is very different for very real reasons (true for fathers and adoptive parents too, but in a completely different way).

etc etc.

So they can have that belief, and hold those conversations because they believe the former to be true, and know the latter to be reality.

I think you also get a lot of fawning when people want to be seen to be nailing their colours to the "correct" mast; a kind of performative act.

Use to know of someone who had a "trans child" (not that I think children can be trans but YNWIM). The amount of people of our mutual acquaintance who hung on this parent's every word was staggering, not only as if she was some kind of oracle of Right Things To Think and Say but as a signal to everyone else that being friends with her meant they were a Proper Ally.

That’s your response to “explain how a man can become a woman”?
How tediously typical.