Uses the pronoun "judy"

[RachelGreensHair]

Never seen this one before! Anyone else want to use it?
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/feb/05/desperate-housewives-felicity-huffman-comeback-jail-hir

I’m going to use doink as my new pronoun for everything.

Sorry, doink mean doink going to use doink as doink pronoun.

Would you also be identifying as a wrestler?

I'd also like a performative pronoun.

As Mac has already taken Judy, I'll have Punch.

'Gender' is increasingly just a word that has zero meaning at all.'My gender is performer'? No, Mac - your gender is 'that feckin eejit'.

Let's try it in ReversedFerret's test sentence,

If you see Mac, could you please ask that feckin eejit if that feckin eejit can stop by my office and bring that feckin eejit's books with that feckin eejit? I don't need anyone else's books, just that feckin eejit's - but I need that feckin eejit to bring them that feckin eejit.

It's not perfect, but definitely reads more coherently.

You've frowned and sighed, rolled your eyes and curled up your lip
Judy, are you contemplating giving me the pip?
The Guardian of History tells me neopronouns goin' down

Oh, Judy
Don't take your nouns to town

So is this actually in the same category as "identifying as an attack helicopter" and hence horribly transphobic? We ought to complain to the Guardian in the strongest possible terms!

Depends who's doing it, Zodfa. Some people are allowed to subvert and mock and make jokes.

Others aren't.

Yes I think “gender” is increasingly being used to mean “anything distinctive about me or what I believe myself to be” - hence the “autigender” mentioned on another thread where autism comes into it. So… personality, abilities or an nd condition can be or relate to your “gender”. It just means “my specialness”.

(And I don’t mean to say there’s anything wrong with having distinctive or special features or abilities that make you yourself - everyone does. But they’re not gender!)

Cant believe I am the first to post this....

Also

Hmm interesting, certainly not one I’d heard of before. Why lower case if it’s a pronoun? Makes it even more difficult to get right

Innnteresting...

You can see who's in a place if privilege where they can use silly pronouns because they're being 'fun & playful & raising a wry smile' and the usual suspects enter the chat to bless the usage & decree "it's fine".

Perhaps I shall try out a nonsensical pronoun as a 45yo mother of 2 in a captured organisation and see if I'm greeted with wry, playful smiles or hauled into HR.

I've just read this. I need to go and lie down.........

Aye. See 'it's a performance, duh'

It's all a fucking performance. Only some special people are indulged and some aren't.

That actress sounds like a nasty piece of work, the playwright a tedious wanker, and the play hard work.

Think I'll stay in and watch some repeats of Murder She Wrote instead.

It's all a fucking performance. Only some special people are indulged and some aren't.

Yes but if your arty performance actively encourages people to understand that it's all a performance... well that's all to the good. Even though not everyone could get away with it - I'd rather see someone ridicule it than no one. Genderwoo will eat itself, in a million large and small ways.

Has calling girls/women "judies" gone out of fashion in Liverpool? I was in the army with a couple of chaps from there who always referred to women as "a judy" or "judies"

I associate Judy too much with Punch.

The use of "gender" to mean "something about my personality" is sort of the whole point of gender criticism.

It's not "increasingly", it's only ever meant that (in terms of gender identity).

Feminine, masculine, autistic, Saggitarius, cat - they are describing what people think themselves are like.

That what you're like as a person ever got tied to whether you have XX or XY chromosomes IS the madness of it.

Yet people think it's less weird to tie "liking dolls" to what sex you are. Because sexism is ingrained.

also this thread has now given me an ear worm (but it's graet so I'll forgive you)

Murder Zhe Wrote.

Netflix’s bold new reboot about Neo, a budding young mystery writer hoping to be the next Juno Dawson who, while researching zher next book, helps the authorities solve crime by identifying those who have committed Wrong Think.

I know the argument you'rre making popebishop, have been on the feminist boards for years and a feminist for longer. But I don't entirely agree.

Gender as it's generally understood is not just personality/any personal attribute. It can mean sex, or it can mean cultural behaviours thatare linked to or associated with sex. I am entirely opposed to restrictive and damaging gender stereotypes, and I'm opposed to gender ideology that implies that a gender stereotype you want to enact determines your sex. That's nonsense.

But, having thought about it a lot I do think gender plays a role in society and not necessarily an unhealthy one. It should be no surprise in such a cultural species that cultural norms and behaviours are attached to the sexes, and to some degree grow out of or are based on them. (For example in clothing, "feminine" clothing tends to emphasise or exaggerate the female body, and the same for masculine clothing.)

We can use gender to indicate or hide our sex and how we relate to gender roles - do we embrace them, play with them, reject them or feel free to pick and choose from everything? In the 80s days of gender-bending, gender wasn't rejected outright or abolished - it was subverted, challenged and distorted but it was still being used to say somethig about how we feel about being the sex we are.

In my own life I reserve the right to dress in a feminine way if I want - because I'm feeling like I want to look female - or in a masculine or neutral way but when i do that I am making use of gender norms. The alternative is to have npthing gendered at all - I don't think that's realistic because humans will always associate some cultural things to some material relaities. And also I genuinely don't think most peple would like it.

When it's damaging is when it restricts. A situation where it's not OK to break out of or just ignore a gender stereotype - no. A situation where the gender roles, norms or stereotypes restrict or harm women (or indeed men, as they do) - no. But that doesn't mean gender as cultural expression has to be bad in itself. Just as we have cultural expressions linked to other aspects of being human (age, ethnicity, local area etc).

To be fair the whole article is a hoot - the constant reference to "We move on again" whenever anything vaguely controversial comes up and the part where Huffman has to square her part in this very trans-positive play with her "stealing" the lead role in transamerica from an actual trans person (she "doesn't remember this 🤣)

Also the fact that Huffman suggests the prime of miss jean brodie as an example of a naice, non-controversial genteel play that she could have chosen to do instead of this one (while admitting she hasn't been offered much after the scandal which explains "hir") tends to suggest she doesn't know wtf she's talking about seeing as one of the key plots is a teacher sending her underage student to seduce her own ex-lover, among others. Albeit I don't think Maggie Smith ever had to discuss how to use a straw to snort crystal meth up her arse so I suppose on the scale of what you want to be remembered for as an actor, there's that....

Gender as it's generally understood is not just personality/any personal attribute.

Yes, I did say when talking in terms of gender identity. "Feminine" etc can refer to clothes and bodies, but as gender identity it tends to be talking about people's personality traits, preferences, skills, behaviours etc. But I appreciate your post.

It's the constant unthinking conflation with "feminine" (culturally) and "female" (biologically) that is so common. (And same for masculine/male).