Mermaids advise the CPS on 'sex by deception'

[ArabellaScott]

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Mermaids-Consultation-Response_-Deception-as-to-Gender_-proposed-revision-to-CPS-legal-guidance-on-Rape-and-Serious-Sexual-Offences-1.pdf

Mermaids Response to Consultation on the Deception as to Gender section in the Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO) legal guidance

'as a charity that support young trans and gender diverse people, we are concerned that many of the recent prosecutions for sex crimes on the basis of deception as to gender affect young people'
...
'Even if a trans person lies about their gender history or assigned sex at birth, they remain an authentic man'

[verbatim copy and pastes - Arabella]

The consultation:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/consultation/consultation-deception-gender-section-rape-and-serious-sexual-offences-rasso-legal

A very tenacious woman on X has pursued FOIs to reveal who was consulted (she started the FOI process in 2022, and it's taken threats of court, appeals, etc, to finally produce the response):

https://twitter.com/thespiralquirk/status/1751968057495269493

I wonder if SW responded on behalf of their same-sex attracted members who might have strong feelings about this?

Why is Mermaids, the children's sex change charity getting involved in this consultation? Especially in the middle of a paedophile /porn scandal?

I presume because 'we are concerned that many of the recent prosecutions for sex crimes on the basis of deception as to gender affect young people'.

Does seem an odd thing for a charity whose stated goal is:

'to relieve the mental and emotional stress of all those aged 19 years and under who are transgender, nonbinary and gender variant, as well as to promote education and awareness'

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/5054976

I seem to recall that there's an odd story about the origins of this? I recall reading something by the Gay Mens Network ? that suggested there are out of control staff in the CPS running amok with consultations like this and managers too scared to challenge them? Or something like that.
Certainly the nature of the consultations suggests the usual CPS stitch up against women's interests? And for some odd reason the targets for prosecutions in this area all seem to be women?

It's all very odd

Ooh gosh look at the totally surprising totally accidental whopping political bias to a view point currently getting very, very expensive in court, trying to control the law to steamroller it's own happy little agenda over the top of other people's rights.

Where's the LGBA? The uncaptured gay mens groups? Fair Play for Women? The balance to the views?

Because this would be such great fun to take to court, it really, really would. Delicious in fact.

We would argue that someone’s gender is not simply a matter of perception, but rather someone’s true and authentic identity. If a person perceives themselves to be a man, we would suggest that this means that they are a man. Therefore we would propose an amendment to say that where a person’s ‘gender refers to the way in which an individual identifies’ and ‘if a suspect genuinely identifies their gender as different to their birth assigned sex’

🤔🙄😒😵

'Even if a trans person lies about their gender history or assigned sex at birth, they remain an authentic man'

Yes, this is often true.

Because they eh - checks notes -they have neither medical nor legal expertise

Mermaids identify as <insert what ever advisory service you want>

Wtaf does this have to do with gender questioning children?

This is a children's charity. Ffs

For any new lurkers. Mermaids employed this man.

I can't put up the unedited version as mnhq deletes it!

The list of those consulted looks good. Happy to see Nia on there.

I can see why Mermaids are fighting on this. Am I right in thinking that only women have been prosecuted for this crime? Maybe not, but the high profile cases have been women presenting as men. It is so fundamental to the idea of gender identity that your sex has nothing to do with - er - your sex. Or something. It's quite brave to present such a thin idea so passionately. But I wonder how they manage to ignore the victim's perspective on this. Surely their clients are the kinds of vulnerable young people who are more likely to be sexually exploited by others? Doesn't that matter more to them?

It's telling that they use the example of a woman who believes herself to be a man rather than the opposite.

Trans men are only trotted out like this when Stonewalled organisations want to make something appear less threatening. All other times they're completely sidelined and ignored.

Don't be silly, @PermanentTemporary , nothing matters to Mermaids except Mermaids-self!

Good time to revisit this thread

x.com/mforstater/status/1598693540816723969?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

I do think it's reasonable for Mermaids to talk about transmen in this consultation because the two cases that I'm aware of were indeed women presenting as men.

If you are raped by someone with a penis who identifies as a woman - tough, it's more about them than it is about you/you haven't really been raped and in court remember to call him "she" or you'll get a telling-off.

Dennis Kavanagh's twitter is quite informative about what the problems are with the CPS consulting Stonewall & the dodgy Mermaids in secret:

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1751992615254241354

So Mermaids is arguing that a victim’s consent doesn’t matter? That if a perpetrator lied to their victim about their sex then the victim can’t complain because the perpetrator was being honest to themselves? Have I got that right?

So their input is 'It's not a crime, you asked for it, go away now'.

I wouldn’t trust Mermaids to advise on whether today is Monday.

A whole lot of this political movement is about trying to destroy other people's right to consent.

Yep, summed it up perfectly.

I notice Mermaids are trying to make a distinction between people who are genuinely pretending to be the opposite sex, and those who are only pretending to pretend to be the opposite sex.

The proposals stated Justine McNally was considered to be a ‘girl’ who pretended to be a ‘boy’ yet the scenarios related to trans men or trans women, who are not pretending to be the gender with which they identify.

How are we supposed to know whether someone genuinely identifies as a gender or is only pretending to identify as a gender? What is the difference between these two types of people anyway? And why does it matter?

That's because trans identifying males don't pass unless they're from Thailand.