Trans pedo treated too harshly for being trans

[Electricblankettime]

There's alot to unpack here. He seems to be talking of being a nice person buy supporting other trans prisons...and appears to be in with another trans pedo isla bryson. It appears he is trusted enough to go to a special wing just a few months after being sentenced and destroying a child's life. It also looks like the wing may have been emptied just after decisions were made to not have transwomen in womens prisons....and the biologixal women held there had to shift over and make room for these brace and stunning pedeos womhttps://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/butcher-who-abducted-sexually-abused-31927864

If he wins a reduction in his sentence, how much kudos would his barrister and solicitor win among their peers and how much would their fee scale change?

I understand that if they accept a brief, they must do as the client instructs but I just wondered. And at what point do they say to the client to just accept the ruling of the court?

If I remember this case correctly he was given a harsher sentence because the judge said the victim only got in the car because she thought he was a woman. The victim knew not to get in a car with a man.

Legally it’s an interesting one because it involves deception - a man pretending to be a woman. Which is what the protected characteristic of gender reassignment allows.

This is a horrible case and I hope he loses, but he has the right to appeal.

I don't believe he has had the surgery, which is the protected characteristic. He is just self identifying as female, self id is not a protected characteristic, though you wouldn't know it.

@MinnieCauldwell you do not have to have surgery to be covered by the PC.

All you need to do is be thinking about transitioning to be protected.

The vast majority of trans people do not take puberty blockers, cross sex hormones or have surgery.

It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:

• age.
• gender reassignment.
• being married or in a civil partnership.
• being pregnant or on maternity leave.
• disability.
• race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin.
• religion or belief.
• sex.

From : https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

Gender reassignment = GRC, if I am not mistaken.

Are you sure? That seems insane.

Completely sure. Nothing more needed to have the PC of gender reassignment than to say "I am a woman"

Here are the judge's sentencing remarks. I warn you, they are pretty revolting. Bless that brave girl for calling the police. There is absolutely nothing in the sentencing statement that suggests the tariff was increased because of Miller's gender identity. The judge could have imposed a whole-life sentence, but didn't. The brief is doing their job, but this is just trying it on.

https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/sentences-and-opinions/2023/10/18/hma-v-andrew-miller

Part of the problem is "gender reassignment" is not defined.
There's already a few definitions of what people think it means above, but because it so poorly defined, judges end up making that decision not us.

Just for comparison "sex" was thought to be well defined, but even that is in limbo now. Lady Haldane has judged that a GRC can change a person's legal sex, so that should settle it? No unfortunately not. That a GRC can change legal sex the Equality Act still allows for single biological sex spaces. There's a clear conflict there that will probably need to be settled by another judge. Until that happens and we know for sure all we have is personal opinions.
Also the law varies by country so it's very possible we end up where the answer depends on which jurisdiction applies to a question.

I do think for better or worse that it would be very helpful to have better written laws, but politicians of all shades seem to be a particularly inept today even by the standard of their usual ineptitudes.

Other criminal lawyers would recognise that the lawyer was doing his/her job according. Kudos is not really a concept that has much traction for legal aid work in my experience. I don't know about Scotland but in England and Wales legal aid is on fixed fees. The rates are so low that they do not reflect the complexity or legal or social implications of the work.

You are also under professional duties to advise the client in accordance with the law. If there is a legal point to be properly argued, it is correct to take it.

There is a clear understanding amongst criminal lawyers (civil practitioners not so much, and the current government not at all) that you are bound to accept instructions if you are qualified to take the case and that you cannot refuse on the grounds of personal beliefs or values. Given the issues that this discussion board raises, it must be right to defend lawyers' professional duties to represent clients to the best of their abilities, however loathsome those clients may be.

@Delphin A GRC is separate legislation the GRA.

You do not need one to be protected by the EA2010 PC of gender reassignment. All you need to do is say you are or have transitioned.

You can get your sex changed on your drivers licence and passport without a GRC. Apparently just make a declaration.

I know it can look scary but the other FWR board has a lot of well informed women. We don’t all believe the same but a lot of us believe in single sex spaces for women and that woman = adult human female.

@DadJoke In summing up the judge did say “The mode of abduction itself is also in my view a significantly aggravating feature, if any were needed in such a case, and here to speak plainly I am referring to your female presentation as you invited your victim into your car. One only has to ask oneself the simple question: would an 11 year old girl have willingly entered your car had you presented as a man? The answer is that obviously she would not. “

Whilst not explicitly stated in the actual reasons for sentencing a reasonable person would include this as a factor for not giving the maximum reduction in the tarriff. I know I originally said increased the tariff but the lower reduction in tariff achieves the same thing.

From the Government website: "In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex." So, you are protected from discrimination from the moment you decide to transition. So if you tell your boss and they sack you, that's illegal discrimination.

@RubyDarke thank you. I am not au fait with the industry so appreciate your explanation.

Ah, yes, you are right, I hadn't spotted the "aggravating". If the judge hadn't considered this if Miller had been a non-transgender woman, then they have a better case for a reduction of sentence.

The comparator would be another man, I think, @DadJoke

And of course a “non-transgender woman” is a woman.

Well then I suppose it comes down to what does ' reassign you sex' mean.

Especially as no-one can actually, literally, do that.

So does it mean get your legal sex reassigned through acquiring a GRC?

He is a disgusting POS and I hope someone offs him in jail

Doesn’t matter what it means as it applies even if someone claims they are intending to do it and therefore doesn’t have to have done anything whatsoever. It could be argued they should have to prove they had announced something or made practical changes to qualify, but it was deliberately set up so that it was as broad and vague as possible.

I’ve never in my life had this feeling but with this case I really agree. I can imagine he’ll be loathed amongst other prisoners and hopefully have a target on his head.

She added: “Too much weight has been attached to that factor. It is clear the appellant has experienced psychological difficulties throughout his life. This is his first offence for such a serious matter. Prior to the offence he was struggling to cope with a number of factors in his life. He was soothed by the feeling of control.

So soothing, kidnapping a child and sexually assaulting them over more than 24 hours. Maybe he could have had a nice bath and lit some candles instead.

All the eye rolls in the world are not enough for this shit.

I lose track of this argument. Are we moving past 'no male person ever does anything terrible to other people with their access enabled by presenting as trans, so if they do they're not trans' to 'yes ok, sometimes a male person with a T presentation or identity will use their presentation and access to do terrible things and when they do people shouldn't be mean to them about it?'

It IS an aggravating factor. The comparator would be another male pedophile who chose to dress up as a woman to kidnap and assault a child. And that child's life and her family's will be permanently different because of his using her to get off with.

As for 'seeking feelings of control' - I hope the sentence increases, not reduces. He would have killed that child. And he is no different to any other criminal who has committed such crimes and then wants people to splash about in a magical mystery tour of their psyche. All that matters is protecting others from them. Including a damaged family having to listen to 'I fucked about with your little girl cos poor little me and my control issues'.

It goes back to the questions we terfs have yet to have a satisfactory answer to: how can you tell which are the nice men in frocks and which are the ones who mean women and girls harm? You can't.

If he gets his sentence reduced then from my (albeit inexpert) reading of the law, it will be a green light for any male paedo simply to put on a frock first.

I feel that this quote says it all - remorse for the trans community rather than that poor little girl...

I note that you are recorded by the risk assessor as talking in detail about your desire to limit the impact of your offending on what is referred to as the wider trans community. By way of contrast, however, the assessor reports that, during her discussions with you, you appeared to deflect from the harm your sexual assaults have caused to your victim.

I think its fair enough. Its the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing, the poor kid thought she was safe because the when we talk about stranger danger we focus on unknown men. He used a female identity to commit a male crime. Hope he rots.