How to respond: been asked what sex I was assigned at birth

[Needapadlockonmyfridge]

I recently signed up to have blood tests privately (vitamin levels etc).

On the health questionnaire, one of the questions asked what sex I was assigned at birth.

Scientific company should surely do better than this. Not sure it is worth flagging up with them. I suppose, at least they didn't ask gender, but still.... Disappointing.

Pretending that sex is a complicated term which isn't universally understood is just a tactic used to validate gender theory. Sex - male or female is simple. "gender" is complex, made up and pretty irrelevant when it comes to health are, apart from in relation to mental health and gender dysphoria.

I notice you don't say you have any form of medical qualification or biology qualifications, @LaughingCat. I too have worked in "healthcare communications" and it's a different skillset.

I know I'm not adding anything new to the thread but I am so so so sick of all this nonsense mutilation of language and reality that I want to repeat what many have said:
The question should be "What sex are you?" (with a separate question for anyone who also wants to state a gender identity. Sex is not assigned.
Anyone asking for a bodily service should expect to be asked, with clarity, about their bodily status (not about an alleged bureaucratic status generated by a form-filler at the time of their birth).

Actually that's a really good point.

Sex assigned at birth should now become irrelevant because it was decided for you by someone else (a medical professional) and you were never asked for and never gave consent for whatever sex you were assigned.

Plus being one day old you couldn't actually speak to express your opinion/ consent.

So logically there should be no assignment of sex until the person gives their consent, which would be at 18. And on that basis there could be no boys or girls until the age 18 just very small, smallish, medium sized people.

@Musomama1 @LauraNorda - yep, agreeing with both of you - if you read my further posts, you’ll see I went into the language choice last night. It’s not a good word, but I was trying to explore how it had come to be the word that is used (even though I didn’t like it).

@2024GarlicCloves - Yes! What sex were you at birth would seem to be the simplest, along with a simple explanation of what sex means as many people, trans included, get it mixed up with gender, which can lead to adverse health outcomes. It was certainly the one I was advocating for at my last job.

But I’m asking what, given the potential for variations in genetic or phenotypic sex, it is exactly that determines the differences between interpreting male and female test results, say. What is it that answers that question in a way that ensures you get the right advice…how do you know which sex you are if, as a previous poster called it, you are ‘ambiguous’? I am genuinely asking, as that helps me to ensure that the wording used is absolutely right…and everyone understands what is meant. What is that biological mechanism or presence that you can test for and point to as proof for either M or F sex? Again…I am absolutely not trying to stir…this is just a question that has always confused me. Any help with answering it would be hugely appreciated!

You forget that TRA, like LBGT Youth who wrote the Scottish Government’s school guidelines, think that 4 year olds know their gender and that this should be affirmed by the school in secret without letting their parents know.

LGBT Youth is also currently under police investigation for child sexual exploitation and grooming.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lgbt-youth-scotland-refers-itself-to-police-over-historical-grooming-claims-v6wdvwclm

Are you suggesting they came out of the vaginal canal in that attire?

Completely agree, @Ereshkigalangcleg, though I do actually have a degree in biomedical materials science, with a masters in a specific type of stem cell therapy. So, I do have the background, even though I work in comms now. But, this is not my area of expertise, so I am asking the questions that would help build my knowledge to the point that the right word choice can be determined. If you’ve worked in comms, you know that’s what we do…get the experts to explain it to us so we can translate and ensure that non-experts can understand.

That’s also why I asked for further explanation of the pp who was discussing the link between gender ideology and women’s oppression - your explanation was really helpful, thank you! I couldn‘t see it but I can now.

If you are really interest in DSD then you might find the following charts of development pathways helpful. For those rare individuals with a DSD tests are typically done at birth and will include whole genome sequencing (not just karyotyping), ultrasound, MRI scans, blood work etc. Most DSD affect many body systems and you would likely not be dealing with typical blood ranges. That doesn’t STILL doesn’t mean they are some ‘other’ sex (there are still just two gamete types). It means they are male or female with a condition that affected their sex developmental pathway.

https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/sex-development-charts

In zoom training sessions you get assigned to a sub group when they split you into rooms for discussion. Someone else decides where you are and off you go. That's what assigned means.

If you were assigned a sex at birth, that would mean we all came out of our mums, smooth like dolls between our legs, and a midwife went, 'this one is a girl' and a cunt appeared, or 'this was is a boy' and a penis and testicles appeared (and all the internal sex stuff too).

Even on their own terms, assigning sex does not make sense to Gender ideologists. Being trans means, according to them, a gender identity at odds with your sex. So you still have a fixed sex. So they should be comfortable with sex existing as a fixed and observable thing.

Instead its like, at some point in the early days of Gender Ideology, the conversation went:
TRA ' TW are women because of their gender identity, so they should be in all the women spaces and things.'
Feminist ' But those spaces exist to protect women because of differences in sex, not gender identity.'
TRA ' Yeah, well, well, yeah well, , yeah, well, well, er, umm, well, er, umm, yeah well, sex is not really a thing anyway! Yeah that its it! Sex is not really a thing anyway, so there!'

And after saying that, they got stuck in all this nonsense they then had to make up to defend why sex is not really a thing and doesn't really matter.

I was just going to say the same!

@SaffronSpice Thankyou for that link, those charts are really accessible.
" For those rare individuals with a DSD tests are typically done at birth and will include whole genome sequencing (not just karyotyping)"
That's the odd thing about this phrase coming into fashion now. Decades ago, before we had genome sequencing, if a baby was born with ambiguous genetalia their sex would be assigned. Then, at pubery, the assignation might prove to be wrong. So someone over 40 with a DSD may well have a sex assigned at birth different to their actual sex. This couldn't happen now, assignaion is unnecessary because we have the technology for full diagnosis.
I wonder how they'd respond if you emailed saying, "I seem to only be able to access the form intended for individuals with DSDs" ?

Or maybe just a victim of the current magical thinking, which says that a person can actually change sex? That could be doing a lot of harm to vulnerable people.

My guess would be that people with a DSD are very much aware of what sex they are, and why it would be important to make sure an HCP knows. I also agree that there needs to be education to ensure people know the difference between sex and gender, that sex can’t change, and maybe some of the health implications of getting that wrong. Maybe that should be on the school curriculum 🤔

I think pp are talking about two different things ie 'what's the best question to get a useful answer?' and 'is this question giving succour to our ideological enemies?'

I would ask 1. Sex F or M 2. DSD? (pick from drop-down list) 3. Drugs? (free-form entry) 4. Surgeries? (free-form entry).

If the answers to 2-4 are all No but the patient still answers 1 with anything other than what's on their birth certificate, then they deserve to have their form set on fire and filed in the bin.

No need to even ask for gender identity, unless it's a psychiatric assessment.

If the answers to 2-4 are all No but the patient still answers 1 with anything other than what's on their original birth certificate, then they deserve to have their form set on fire and filed in the bin.

I'm so sorry, I forgot that people can get their birth certificates changed. 😡

Yes. There are a lot of younger people who have been badly taught, have learned horrible misinformation.

I mean, look. 'Scientific American' FFS:

'Plentiful data and analyses support the assertions that sex is very complex in humans and that binary and simplistic explanations for human sex biology are either wholly incorrect or substantially incomplete.'

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-why-human-sex-is-not-binary/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

Ha! It is amazing the glee with which organisations such as Scientific American and Harvard have thrown away their good reputations in pursuit of I’m not sure what….

Ten years ago no one would have had trouble answering a health form asking ‘what is your sex?’ The only reason anyone might now is because of pandering to these fools and allowing the corruption of language including ‘assigned at birth’.

Same here.

Np-one gets "assigned" a sex - even individuals with DSD/VSD can have their sex identified chromosomally nowadays.

Yes there is. Sex observed at birth. But gender ideologies reject this for political reasons. There is no legitimate reason to take offense at this. It’s accurate.

Or sex recorded at birth.

They want to keep assigned as it fits their view that sex is malleable, on a spectrum, undefinable and can be changed through hormones and surgery so one can ‘become’ male and female.

We should not allow an unevidenced, contested and controversial political ideology, to change words used in healthcare like this.

Surely the simple thing would be to just ask for ‘sex at birth’?

Love this link, thank you @SaffronSpice - it’s a really clear and easy breakdown on the biological definition of sex and why it is superior to the genetic/phenotypic definitions of sex. So much easier to understand (and I agree, that is absolutely the definition of sex, in and of itself)!

In there, when discussing genetic/phenotypic/gender types, it says: Some of these definitions might be useful in specific contexts, whether in social or medical situations, but they are not biological definitions for ‘sexes’, as they differ across time and space.

Which brings me back to what I’m trying to work out…what is it exactly that doctors are looking to find out? What is the underlying determinant that changes how a clinician should interpret a set of results? Is it the gamete production, the gene expression, the genital organs and associated hormone mechanisms that support those? Because that is what they need people to tell them. What is it that is useful in the medical context?

a really clear and easy breakdown on the biological definition of sex and why it is superior to the genetic/phenotypic definitions of sex.

What do you mean by genetic/phenotypic definition of sex? These pathways lay out the genes involved (‘genetic’) which leads to the pathway to the development of each gamete type. This outcome is their phenotype. I am unclear how you suggest it does not include genetics and phenotype or how you define sex when those are the only things looked at? Are you suggesting sex should be defined by some metaphysical belief?

May be it might help if you could give us your definition of ‘phenotype’ (generally, not specifically in relation to sex). And your understanding of the relationship between genes and chromosomes.